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uh

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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hey everybody welcome back to the rabbit

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hole conversations podcast

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um i am here with darren the newly

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unveiled darren uh you may know him as

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exo academian um he is obviously the

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host of the xbox academian uh youtube

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channel he's got the point of

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convergence podcast he's also the

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co-host of the liminal frames podcast

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both are phenomenal i'll leave links for

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everything so you can find darren um but

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yeah darren welcome to the show

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awesome awesome well i'm just ready to

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dive right into it so

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i was uh listening to your wonderful uh

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interview on engaging the phenomenon the

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other night i will link that one as well

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um and you said something that really

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stuck out to me and i i kind of want to

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use that as sort of our starting point

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which is that um you know you were

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talking about how you know you've

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recently

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come forward in terms of like putting

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yourself out there publicly with your

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face and you know your name and all of

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that and talking about work that you

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have coming up and sort of

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speaking about it as you use the word

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vocation which is a word that's sort of

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been like coming up for me

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synchronistically a lot lately and i

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really wanted to explore that because i

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feel like

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you know once people kind of dive into

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this topic

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uh you think you're starting with ufos

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and then somehow you end up with the

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nature of reality and consciousness and

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then suddenly for some of us we have

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this

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something new and i would just love if

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you could share and as as as much or as

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little as you loved like to share

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kind of about like

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what does that process look like for you

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like where did you start how did you get

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here like i would just love to hear it

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all

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sure well i'll give you the uh the

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reader's digest version because it's a

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long story but um

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i think it's interesting because uh

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so i think i was thinking about this

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before we went on the air and i was

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thinking you know i know you're gonna

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ask me about

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generally how i got interested in this

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and what made me start believing in

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these kinds of things and whatnot and so

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i was thinking back on my process um and

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it's really been a process over a long

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time

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um

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and it's just interesting because you

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know when i was a late teenager i grew

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up in the pacific northwest and

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it was a very very postmodern

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region and

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there was

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not a lot of

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belief in spirit or in

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an underlying meaning to life and in

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fact it was very much a deconstruction

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mode you know there is no ultimate

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meaning everything just how you see it

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subjective interpretation

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um all kind of hierarchies and kind of

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underlying meaning was being taken apart

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deconstructed because it was seen as

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oppressive uh and so i grew up in this

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kind of environment where that was the

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case

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i didn't grow up with religious parents

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pretty progressive liberal parents

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pretty laissez-faire kind of upbringing

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and so i found myself kind of hungry for

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something that did did invest meaning in

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my life uh

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which i think a lot of young people are

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and so

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at that point you know at that point my

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life became an evangelical christian

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looking back not because it was

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necessarily the perfect fit but it was

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what was available you know and what was

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uh offering kind of meaning

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and i went on that journey for a long

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time and then eventually you know

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after years and years felt

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less and less committed to that less and

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less did that feel like home to me too

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many questions were arising

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for that kind of dogmatic view

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so then

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again based on the way our culture is

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often there wasn't a lot of alternative

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at the time so then i kind of like came

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out of that and went through a brief

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period

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where i was never atheistic um i still

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sensed his underlying meaning

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but you know i was very much a

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reductionistic materialist you know i

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had very much the physicalist model of

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reality unless i can knock on it and

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measure it you know unless you can see

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it and i can see it's not real

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those kind of things

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that lasted for a little while

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and then i uh found integral theory in

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ken wilbur's writings and teachings and

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that was really helpful for me in terms

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of re-enchanting the world in a lot of

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ways without making it religious without

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being dogmatic

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it was this view that helped me

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understand that we could take all of the

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truths that have been broadcast around

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the world discovered around the world

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over time both uh you know kind of

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esoteric knowledge as well as sort of

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you know the scientific revolution and

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whatnot

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and combine it together uh and and ken

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wilbur used to famously say

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everybody's right

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and he didn't mean to the same degree

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everyone's right but to some degree

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everyone's right there's these different

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kinds of truths we need to bring

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together and that

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interiority or you know internal states

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and subjective meaning and and purpose

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and spirituality are real too and they

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need to

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be brought into our sort of

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meta-narrative

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and

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then i began to actually have this sense

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of spirituality again

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i know this is a long answer and then we

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move into

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profound experiences myself right

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and and that even in that crowd was a

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bit much right so you have that kind of

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crowd where this is what i find so

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interesting these different communities

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i belong to over time there's still

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these rule sets like this is okay this

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is not okay right

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and and so the paranormal was actually

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not really welcomed that much in

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integral circles even though sort of

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deep historic spiritual knowledge was

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you know

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so you're okay talking about

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reincarnation but you're not okay

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talking about alien objection or

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something like that

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uh generally speaking there's always

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exceptions to the rule

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but after having kind of an anomalous

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experience of my own

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and then over time just realizing so

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many people have those kinds of

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experiences and they have these uncanny

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uh characteristics that are similar that

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are in common that

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without these people having a background

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or having read about it there's these

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weird things that add credibility to me

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so

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then it begins to bring in this sense

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that over time

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you begin to wonder if something is

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orchestrating the entire thing right and

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this is where the synchronicity comes in

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at first it's just little little bits

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here and there

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that seem that's strange that that

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happened what are they what are the odds

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that that would happen you know that

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another one happens then another one

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happens

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um

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and then you know you learn about

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parapsychological research and how much

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the psi phenomena is well documented and

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then you look in

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quantum theory and how you know

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consciousness seems to impact physical

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reality in different ways that only when

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you actually have a consciousness

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measuring something does it actually

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collapse into something that's then

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measurable and shows up in the physical

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world we can knock on and measure and

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both you and i can see

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so

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the aperture was opening back up again

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recognizing that there's a lot of you

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know magic in a way a lot of enchantment

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to reality

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and then personally when i mentioned the

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other night the thing about

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synchronicity and a sense of vocation

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it's just it's just one thing after

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another lining up that again you say

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what are the chances that would happen

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and that would lead to this and that

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would lead to this that's part of it

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just looking back and realizing this

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this overarching orchestration is what

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it feels like to some degree right

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but then also you add to that this this

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idea or this feeling that's really hard

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to put your finger on it that you're

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having ideas that you didn't used to

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have you know that it's uh

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there seems to be thoughts in your mind

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that weren't there before things that

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you feel even called to do

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that you didn't want to do before which

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raises all sorts of interesting

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questions around uh free will you know

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determinism because where is that coming

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from and is it is it now mine and was it

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given to me you know who who originated

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that that thought of that feeling

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but for me it's it's been a combination

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of

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feeling that overarching orchestration

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and sort of

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not resisting that but feeling like this

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this feels like home for me this feels

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like what i'm supposed to be who i'm

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supposed to be

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and so that led into this sense of

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certain

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things i want to do

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ways i want to join with people in

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certain different

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topics and different

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endeavors together adventures together

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and all of that feels again orchestrated

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it feels synchronistic and it goes back

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months and months and when i take the 30

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000 fifth view sometimes it feels like

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it goes back decades

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that's a long answer

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no i love that answer i i resonate with

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so much of that honestly and i

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that feeling of orchestration that

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feeling of

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i think that's what happened for me as

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well is just a feeling that all of these

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disparate parts of myself and my story

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and the things that have interested me

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like all came together and it was like

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oh that all makes sense because it was

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preparing me to do this and i don't know

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why this is so important but suddenly

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it's like the most important thing

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right and it's almost like uh you know

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our rational brain wants to be able to

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analyze it you know critically and say

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well it's this led to this led to this

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but sometimes it's not that simple right

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and that feels like almost like the

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00:09:54,710 --> 00:09:52,320
wrong tool for the job it's more like a

286
00:09:56,150 --> 00:09:54,720
this overarching feeling you have um

287
00:09:58,150 --> 00:09:56,160
that that you can't put your finger on

288
00:10:00,070 --> 00:09:58,160
and yet it's there

289
00:10:02,150 --> 00:10:00,080
yeah absolutely if anything i feel like

290
00:10:03,910 --> 00:10:02,160
you can go a little too far at least i

291
00:10:05,190 --> 00:10:03,920
can following the cities because like

292
00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:05,200
i'll have some really good ones and then

293
00:10:08,310 --> 00:10:06,800
i'm like all right the universe is

294
00:10:09,910 --> 00:10:08,320
communicating with me at all times and

295
00:10:12,389 --> 00:10:09,920
then like it's not

296
00:10:14,069 --> 00:10:12,399
right right right exactly yeah you gotta

297
00:10:17,829 --> 00:10:14,079
watch you gotta watch out for that it

298
00:10:20,069 --> 00:10:17,839
does it on its own time that's for sure

299
00:10:21,430 --> 00:10:20,079
for people who are i i have a pretty

300
00:10:23,110 --> 00:10:21,440
diverse audience and a lot of my

301
00:10:24,790 --> 00:10:23,120
audience are people who actually are

302
00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:24,800
aren't as deep into the community and

303
00:10:28,949 --> 00:10:26,320
you know are into this more as like a

304
00:10:31,430 --> 00:10:28,959
side interest and so for people who are

305
00:10:34,389 --> 00:10:31,440
a little less uh familiar with kind of

306
00:10:35,750 --> 00:10:34,399
the consciousness side of the phenomenon

307
00:10:37,910 --> 00:10:35,760
would you mind kind of just talking

308
00:10:39,509 --> 00:10:37,920
through that a little bit and for people

309
00:10:40,870 --> 00:10:39,519
who are confused about like all right so

310
00:10:42,069 --> 00:10:40,880
we're talking about ufos we're also

311
00:10:44,630 --> 00:10:42,079
talking about

312
00:10:45,750 --> 00:10:44,640
consciousness and all of that like what

313
00:10:47,590 --> 00:10:45,760
how would you sort of explain that

314
00:10:49,350 --> 00:10:47,600
connection

315
00:10:51,030 --> 00:10:49,360
yeah that's a big topic and i can

316
00:10:52,310 --> 00:10:51,040
understand why it's confusing to people

317
00:10:53,829 --> 00:10:52,320
and it feels like at some point we

318
00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:53,839
switch topics and how do we end up over

319
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:57,990
so there's a few elements i would touch

320
00:11:02,310 --> 00:10:58,800
on

321
00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:02,320
even when you go back to kenneth arnold

322
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:04,000
and the the beginning of the saucer

323
00:11:07,110 --> 00:11:06,160
movement you know in the 1940s kind of

324
00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:07,120
thing

325
00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:10,480
the the the birth of the modern ufo era

326
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:12,160
at first it looks like a case of him

327
00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:14,800
spotting some some anomalous objects in

328
00:11:18,150 --> 00:11:16,240
the sky and that's it right and so

329
00:11:19,829 --> 00:11:18,160
people who maybe come up this from a

330
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:19,839
nuts and bolts perspective go wow that's

331
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,360
cool that could be you know et

332
00:11:25,990 --> 00:11:23,519
technology from alpha centauri or

333
00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:26,000
wherever and and that sounds exciting

334
00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:27,920
but then you learn that you know later

335
00:11:30,630 --> 00:11:28,720
on

336
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:30,640
he became like we were talking about

337
00:11:35,030 --> 00:11:32,959
synchronistically kind of obsessed

338
00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:35,040
with this entire thing and it led him to

339
00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:36,480
other rabbit trails and different

340
00:11:40,230 --> 00:11:38,320
spiritual paths and

341
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:40,240
he had things like orbs show up in his

342
00:11:44,790 --> 00:11:42,480
is in his home you know in the weeks

343
00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:44,800
after his sighting things that you go

344
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:46,560
how is that connected to

345
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:48,959
seeing you know nuts and bolts e.t

346
00:11:52,389 --> 00:11:51,040
technology up in the sky

347
00:11:54,710 --> 00:11:52,399
but then you find that that kind of

348
00:11:56,949 --> 00:11:54,720
thing happens all over the place that

349
00:11:58,150 --> 00:11:56,959
you you really can't separate separate

350
00:12:00,310 --> 00:11:58,160
these two

351
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:00,320
topics the the the high strangeness or

352
00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:03,360
the paranormal and ufo sightings and or

353
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:05,440
alien contact

354
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:07,360
as much as those sound like different

355
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:09,360
topics entirely

356
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:10,959
and for a long time it was

357
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:12,720
underrepresented in the literature

358
00:12:15,670 --> 00:12:13,680
because

359
00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:15,680
uh you know nuts and bolts ufo

360
00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:17,200
researchers that wanted to be taken

361
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:18,399
seriously

362
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:20,079
and seen as credible

363
00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:21,760
in the scientific mainstream when they

364
00:12:24,949 --> 00:12:23,200
would learn about these different

365
00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:24,959
elements of people having sightings and

366
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:27,360
then having elements of high strangeness

367
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:29,839
show up in their lives

368
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:31,760
that was downplayed in the reports that

369
00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:34,160
were made at the time because again they

370
00:12:36,949 --> 00:12:35,680
these ufologists knew that they would

371
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:36,959
not be taken seriously with those

372
00:12:41,430 --> 00:12:39,360
elements and so they either just ignored

373
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:41,440
those cases altogether or if they did

374
00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:43,279
report on those cases they would you

375
00:12:46,069 --> 00:12:44,880
know conveniently leave out those

376
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:46,079
details

377
00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:48,560
and i think it was people like john keel

378
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:50,480
and jacques villa

379
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:52,880
you know in the 70s really who

380
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:54,079
dug deep

381
00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:56,800
didn't have a bias went in on with an

382
00:13:02,230 --> 00:12:59,120
unprejudiced perspective

383
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:02,240
and not only dug out all these details

384
00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:05,360
where so many of these cases these

385
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,360
ufological cases where it's seeing

386
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:09,760
supposedly craft in the sky

387
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:11,440
not only did all those cases involve

388
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,200
elements of high strangeness and and

389
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:15,600
general paranormality but when jacques

390
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:18,480
valet compared this to religious history

391
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:20,399
and even like fairy lore and that kind

392
00:13:24,790 --> 00:13:22,959
of thing he found all sorts of similar

393
00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:24,800
elements especially when you get beyond

394
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:27,600
the you know the cursory kind of veneer

395
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:29,760
of how it might be described when you

396
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:31,519
look at what actually happened to people

397
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:33,279
there was a lot of similarities a lot of

398
00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:34,480
intersection

399
00:13:39,030 --> 00:13:35,920
between these what we're considered to

400
00:13:40,629 --> 00:13:39,040
be before diverse different fields

401
00:13:42,550 --> 00:13:40,639
so that's that's a big part of it is

402
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:42,560
that there's just these elements of high

403
00:13:46,470 --> 00:13:44,320
strangeness and paranormality that seem

404
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:46,480
to enter into people's lives

405
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:48,000
when they intersect with what we

406
00:13:52,230 --> 00:13:51,040
consider ufos or or aliens

407
00:13:54,310 --> 00:13:52,240
and

408
00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:54,320
lastly i would say that the other piece

409
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:56,800
where consciousness comes in or two more

410
00:14:02,389 --> 00:13:59,440
one is uh people are often changed and

411
00:14:04,310 --> 00:14:02,399
often permanently like that actually not

412
00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:04,320
just because they say okay et's are real

413
00:14:08,230 --> 00:14:06,160
so that gives me a broader perspective

414
00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:08,240
and it changes my view of my life it's

415
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:10,000
more than that they have this deep

416
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:11,760
spiritual sense for lack of a better

417
00:14:15,829 --> 00:14:14,480
word i mean that's kind of a

418
00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:15,839
broad word means lots of different

419
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:17,920
things for different people some people

420
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:19,440
are triggered by it you know some people

421
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:20,880
are fine with it

422
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:23,279
but this underlying and overarching

423
00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:25,360
sense of purpose behind everything they

424
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:26,800
somehow have this

425
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:28,959
uh come into them you know it dawns on

426
00:14:33,670 --> 00:14:31,199
them they see reality differently they

427
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,680
see their lives differently uh

428
00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:35,440
when they have this kind of contact and

429
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:37,279
so they're changed from then on and they

430
00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:38,480
often become

431
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:41,279
less materialistic uh they become more

432
00:14:45,910 --> 00:14:45,040
spiritual or more you know open-minded

433
00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:45,920
more

434
00:14:49,509 --> 00:14:47,680
concerned about their neighbors uh

435
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:49,519
concerned about what we're doing to the

436
00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:51,440
planet all these kind of things

437
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:54,399
suddenly change in their perspective

438
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:56,160
and the last piece i would add is that

439
00:15:00,310 --> 00:14:58,399
um you know there's a

440
00:15:02,470 --> 00:15:00,320
survey that came out a few years ago the

441
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:02,480
free survey which was uh

442
00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:04,480
an experiencer survey

443
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:07,199
and the broad strokes of that are

444
00:15:11,189 --> 00:15:09,839
if you've seen a ufo you're much more

445
00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:11,199
likely than someone from the average

446
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:13,680
population to have a had an experience

447
00:15:18,260 --> 00:15:16,160
of psi phenomena like telepathy or

448
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:18,270
having a precognitive dream

449
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:19,440
[Music]

450
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:20,800
if you've had

451
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:22,240
a near-death experience you're more

452
00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:24,399
likely to see a ufo in the in the future

453
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:26,320
than the average population in other

454
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:28,880
words there was this crossover between

455
00:15:33,509 --> 00:15:30,480
out-of-body experiences near-death

456
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:33,519
experiences seeing ufos having contact

457
00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:36,399
with alien beings

458
00:15:41,269 --> 00:15:38,800
ghosts apparitions you know all of these

459
00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:41,279
somehow overlap that if

460
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:43,519
uh and it's not just that some people

461
00:15:47,189 --> 00:15:45,199
like to make up lots of stories and so

462
00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:47,199
that's that crowd it's that actually

463
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:48,639
when you look at the data it really does

464
00:15:52,069 --> 00:15:50,240
seem like

465
00:15:53,749 --> 00:15:52,079
some sort of switch is turned on in a

466
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:53,759
way you could say

467
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:54,959
something dawns on these people

468
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:56,560
something changes when they have one of

469
00:16:01,749 --> 00:15:59,360
these initiation kind of experiences and

470
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:01,759
from then on they seem to have

471
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:04,160
an openness and a perception of these

472
00:16:09,509 --> 00:16:06,240
other kinds too and

473
00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:09,519
underlyingly it seems like consciousness

474
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:11,920
is is the undercurrent beneath all of

475
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:15,749
that's such a good answer he did a much

476
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,600
better job than i would have done

477
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:19,199
sometimes i get on these weird side

478
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:21,040
tracks and i'm like how did i get here

479
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:23,440
again

480
00:16:26,949 --> 00:16:25,440
but yeah no i think it's really it's

481
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:26,959
there's so much in there that i want to

482
00:16:31,110 --> 00:16:30,000
respond to i think that um

483
00:16:33,749 --> 00:16:31,120
yeah it's been what's been very

484
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:33,759
startling for me on the one hand is that

485
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:35,360
like a little over a year ago i was an

486
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:37,279
atheist i was like a pure physicalist

487
00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:39,920
and like like ride or die you know

488
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:41,920
and uh

489
00:16:47,189 --> 00:16:44,320
yeah that's over um

490
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:47,199
you know and i i i feel like i i i

491
00:16:50,629 --> 00:16:48,800
definitely believe in god now i have a

492
00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:50,639
personal relationship with god

493
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:53,040
and but i also have been just opened up

494
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:54,720
to this whole world of experience and

495
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:56,160
it's been really startling for me

496
00:17:01,269 --> 00:16:59,040
because i don't regard it as being even

497
00:17:02,389 --> 00:17:01,279
though it did bring me back to god i i

498
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:02,399
didn't regard it as being like a

499
00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:04,559
particularly like religious experience i

500
00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:06,880
wouldn't have classified it that way but

501
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:09,360
to recognize the parallels between like

502
00:17:13,270 --> 00:17:11,360
what i've experienced and

503
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:13,280
and kind of all of this other you know

504
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:14,160
people

505
00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:15,760
it follows that kind of same model it's

506
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:17,679
almost like a religious conversion you

507
00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:19,280
know and it's very

508
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:21,439
that's very interesting um yeah and even

509
00:17:24,230 --> 00:17:22,799
when you when you

510
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,240
when you step back and you look at

511
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:26,640
religious history right and you again

512
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:28,400
separate the interpretation of what

513
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,320
happened right versus what actually

514
00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:32,400
happened in the raw experience

515
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:34,000
there's so many similarities right when

516
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:35,440
you take away

517
00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:37,520
was this an angel or a demon or was this

518
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:39,919
an alien and you just say

519
00:17:43,110 --> 00:17:40,960
something

520
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:43,120
non-conventionally human interacted with

521
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,080
people

522
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:46,240
and changed them in profound ways and

523
00:17:48,789 --> 00:17:47,200
even

524
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:48,799
impacted the way that

525
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:50,880
groups of people saw reality then you

526
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:52,880
could say that this has happened across

527
00:17:56,870 --> 00:17:55,919
time and in the alien interaction kind

528
00:17:59,750 --> 00:17:56,880
of

529
00:18:02,549 --> 00:17:59,760
modern mythos is maybe just the most

530
00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:02,559
recent wrinkle on that

531
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:03,440
yeah

532
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:06,480
it's it's so crazy and i think um

533
00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:07,600
i think something that a lot of people

534
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:08,799
don't realize and probably is a lot of

535
00:18:11,430 --> 00:18:10,080
my listeners might not realize because i

536
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:11,440
haven't gotten to this part on the

537
00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:13,440
channel yet but um

538
00:18:19,270 --> 00:18:16,080
it's just how much scientific data we

539
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:19,280
have in support of psy phenomenon you

540
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:20,640
know i think that it's really kind of

541
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:22,720
treated as like a joke you know it's

542
00:18:27,909 --> 00:18:25,600
miss clio it's you know it's it's just a

543
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:27,919
something to snicker at but

544
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:30,000
for decades now we've had i'm sure i

545
00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:31,360
don't tell you but for the audience you

546
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:34,160
know for decades now we've had

547
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:36,160
probably more replicable experiments

548
00:18:39,669 --> 00:18:37,840
done on this than just about anything

549
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:39,679
else because people have had to keep

550
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:40,880
proving it and it kind of doesn't matter

551
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:42,960
how many times they prove it you know

552
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:45,520
that that we can prove that humans

553
00:18:49,990 --> 00:18:49,039
do seem to have this latent ability for

554
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:50,000
you know

555
00:18:56,310 --> 00:18:53,840
all of these different things and i just

556
00:18:58,549 --> 00:18:56,320
don't think people recognize

557
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:58,559
don't necessarily recognize that so i

558
00:19:01,510 --> 00:19:00,000
know you work a lot with this kind of

559
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:01,520
phenomenon and you think about it a lot

560
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:03,600
so for somebody who's new to this and

561
00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:05,760
wanted to sort of like is skeptical

562
00:19:09,669 --> 00:19:07,840
about it or you know wants to kind of

563
00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:09,679
start looking into it like how would

564
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:10,880
somebody

565
00:19:14,789 --> 00:19:12,640
start to look at themselves and be and

566
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:14,799
try to cultivate that and recognize that

567
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:17,679
power within themselves

568
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:19,039
right so

569
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:20,880
first thing i'd say just to highlight

570
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:22,480
what you just pointed out

571
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:25,120
is that when people look with uh

572
00:19:28,710 --> 00:19:26,960
objective eyes

573
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:28,720
like you say the the evidence is

574
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:31,200
overwhelming and you made a great point

575
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:32,640
in saying that

576
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:34,880
uh a lot of these researchers that take

577
00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:37,440
parapsychological research seriously go

578
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:39,760
above and beyond in the protocols they

579
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:41,120
put in place because they know it's

580
00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:42,559
going to be mocked and ridiculed no

581
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:45,280
matter what result they find no matter

582
00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:46,960
how rigorous their controls are they

583
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:48,000
know it's going to be mocked or

584
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:50,160
dismissed

585
00:19:55,029 --> 00:19:53,039
i think that people often mistake

586
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:55,039
the spirit of science

587
00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:56,240
you know the way that science is

588
00:20:00,549 --> 00:19:57,919
supposed to be conducted

589
00:20:02,310 --> 00:20:00,559
versus scientism or the way that

590
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:02,320
human beings just get in the way right

591
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:04,720
and that um

592
00:20:07,510 --> 00:20:06,240
one thing when i look back at my history

593
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:07,520
that i've been

594
00:20:10,630 --> 00:20:09,679
just struck by it time and time and time

595
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:10,640
again

596
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,480
is how these different people groups

597
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:14,640
that have different world views are all

598
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:16,799
so dogmatic it's just the way we're

599
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:18,240
wired right we

600
00:20:22,630 --> 00:20:20,320
we not only want to hold on to what we

601
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:22,640
believe and think it's right but we are

602
00:20:27,029 --> 00:20:24,640
almost militantly

603
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:27,039
uh you know opposed to any other views

604
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:33,110
yeah so that's the first thing to say is

605
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:35,200
that absolutely if you want to look at

606
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:37,840
the research it's it's profound it's

607
00:20:42,870 --> 00:20:40,240
really strong it's like replicated like

608
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:42,880
you said time and time and time again

609
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:44,320
dean raiden's work would be a great

610
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:47,200
place to begin he has a numerous books

611
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:49,679
i'm sure you've read several of them uh

612
00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:52,240
that are a great place to start where

613
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,360
he has again used really strong controls

614
00:20:58,950 --> 00:20:57,600
he set up strong protocols it's really

615
00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:58,960
really difficult i would say near

616
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:00,960
impossible to disagree with the results

617
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:03,520
he's found and that's been time and time

618
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:07,909
and then in terms of ourselves i think

619
00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:10,000
that this is one of the the ironic

620
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:11,760
things is that um

621
00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:14,400
when he actually tried to

622
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:15,840
do and i mentioned this in the interview

623
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:18,559
with james when he tried to set up an

624
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:19,600
experiment

625
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:22,000
testing psi capacities how psychic

626
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:23,280
people are

627
00:21:27,990 --> 00:21:25,679
he actually found it very very difficult

628
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:28,000
to find people who hadn't either had

629
00:21:31,909 --> 00:21:29,200
some sort of psychic experience

630
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:31,919
themselves or who had parents that

631
00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:35,120
hadn't either or you know siblings

632
00:21:39,029 --> 00:21:36,640
in other words most people when they're

633
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:39,039
answering honestly have had something

634
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:41,440
happen to them that they can't explain

635
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:43,200
according to a strict physicalist model

636
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,400
right information that they obtained

637
00:21:50,310 --> 00:21:47,919
somehow that they don't know how they

638
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:50,320
obtained it and it just came in somehow

639
00:21:54,149 --> 00:21:52,799
in one of the non-ordinary means it

640
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:54,159
wasn't through their sense organs it

641
00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:55,360
wasn't that someone told them they

642
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:56,559
didn't read it

643
00:22:00,070 --> 00:21:58,080
they just learned something or they had

644
00:22:01,669 --> 00:22:00,080
a sense right

645
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:01,679
so he actually found that it was very

646
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:03,760
difficult to find people who hadn't so i

647
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:05,120
would say to people

648
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:07,280
you know think back

649
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:09,520
again objectively on your own life

650
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:11,520
because again if we're in the culture

651
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:12,960
we're raised right where we're taught

652
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:14,960
this stuff is impossible

653
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:17,200
then we will

654
00:22:22,149 --> 00:22:20,480
block it out um disregard it

655
00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:22,159
because that's what world views do right

656
00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:23,280
they they

657
00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:25,679
let in the information that confirms the

658
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:27,600
world view and blockade anything that

659
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:29,200
doesn't right and it's only when there's

660
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:32,960
a stampede at the wall of our worldview

661
00:22:36,549 --> 00:22:34,880
that puts cracks in it that creates

662
00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:36,559
enough dissonance that we ever begin to

663
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:37,679
question it

664
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:39,039
and often it's only when we think we're

665
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:40,960
going insane because there's so much

666
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:42,720
dissonance do we then

667
00:22:46,390 --> 00:22:44,880
break through and arrive at a new world

668
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:46,400
view that lets in that new information

669
00:22:51,110 --> 00:22:48,640
that becomes part of our reality so i'd

670
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:51,120
say to people now think back to your own

671
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:52,799
experiences and to experiences you've

672
00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:54,480
heard from people you know and you trust

673
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:56,960
that are credible people in your life

674
00:23:01,830 --> 00:22:59,280
and and begin to do some research and

675
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:01,840
find what people have what kind of

676
00:23:05,669 --> 00:23:03,600
information that people come across that

677
00:23:07,590 --> 00:23:05,679
they shouldn't have come across

678
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:07,600
what ways has reality been impacted in

679
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:09,120
ways that shouldn't be according to what

680
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:10,720
we're usually taught about it and i

681
00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:12,400
think when people do that they'll find

682
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:15,600
there's evidence even in their own life

683
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:17,840
yeah and i agree i feel like i mean

684
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:20,320
obviously there's a danger in

685
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:21,760
you know you see people get that mindset

686
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:23,280
where they're like there are no

687
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:25,679
coincidences and they they read into

688
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:28,640
everything but i mean i think an equally

689
00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:30,799
kind of extreme view is that

690
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:32,080
anytime something weird like that

691
00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:33,360
happens that it's oh it's just a

692
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:35,200
coincidence or it's just i didn't

693
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:36,640
understand that or i didn't see it right

694
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:39,200
or you know i didn't something you know

695
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:40,320
but

696
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:44,000
coincidence and i i know for myself when

697
00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:46,480
i've had those kinds of

698
00:23:51,029 --> 00:23:49,360
experiences in my life that there's a

699
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:51,039
there's just a different feeling about

700
00:23:54,950 --> 00:23:53,520
them you know and sometimes you could

701
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:54,960
even share it with somebody else and

702
00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:56,720
they're like that's cool and it's not

703
00:24:00,149 --> 00:23:58,400
really they don't

704
00:24:01,909 --> 00:24:00,159
feel it the way you felt it but it's

705
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:01,919
like you almost know and it's

706
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:03,760
but you to me at least i feel like

707
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:05,760
there's a different feeling to it

708
00:24:08,870 --> 00:24:07,360
that's a great point and i think that's

709
00:24:10,149 --> 00:24:08,880
that's one thing that's a key piece in

710
00:24:11,909 --> 00:24:10,159
this this relates back to what i was

711
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:11,919
saying about people who've had

712
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:14,159
you know ufo sightings or alien contact

713
00:24:18,149 --> 00:24:16,000
or these other modalities they've

714
00:24:20,149 --> 00:24:18,159
experienced and the deep way that

715
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:20,159
they're changed by it right and and this

716
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:22,320
raises an interesting question around

717
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:24,400
what do we lean on in terms of authority

718
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:26,480
in our lives you know what do we look to

719
00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:27,200
to

720
00:24:30,870 --> 00:24:28,720
make sense of the world and tell us we

721
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:30,880
should trust this and not trust this

722
00:24:34,070 --> 00:24:32,880
and like you just said

723
00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:34,080
for those of us who've had these

724
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:35,679
experiences

725
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:37,120
they resonate

726
00:24:41,190 --> 00:24:39,760
to such a strong degree that

727
00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:41,200
someone could argue and say well that's

728
00:24:44,950 --> 00:24:43,039
just subjective but when you've

729
00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:44,960
experienced it it's very very difficult

730
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:47,440
to argue with because it feels in some

731
00:24:51,510 --> 00:24:49,919
ways more real than real which again

732
00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:51,520
speaking of the data that's that's one

733
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:52,880
of the things that's fascinating about

734
00:24:56,470 --> 00:24:54,640
the data with people who have had

735
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:56,480
near-death experiences or out-of-body

736
00:25:00,070 --> 00:24:57,679
experiences

737
00:25:02,070 --> 00:25:00,080
or who have been in the presence of

738
00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:02,080
these others whatever they are right

739
00:25:05,669 --> 00:25:03,600
interdimensional extraterrestrial

740
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:05,679
whatever you want to call them

741
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:07,360
when they've been in those you know

742
00:25:11,750 --> 00:25:09,919
alternate domains because it feels often

743
00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:11,760
like people are taken into a different

744
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:13,679
mode of reality altogether

745
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:15,600
but that feels more real to them than

746
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:17,600
this feels and so

747
00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:20,799
they're returned here and then

748
00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:22,000
people say to them well that might have

749
00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:23,679
been just a dream or it's not as real

750
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:25,520
and they said well actually now that i

751
00:25:29,909 --> 00:25:27,679
have something to compare it with that

752
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:29,919
felt more real than this and and like

753
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:31,919
you said when we look at um these

754
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:33,600
different synchronistic events and i

755
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:35,200
totally agree with you by the way this

756
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:36,480
doesn't mean like throw out critical

757
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:38,720
thinking you know it doesn't mean

758
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:40,960
read the tea leaves and think everything

759
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:43,039
means something right i dropped my pen

760
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:44,720
what is that trying to tell me you know

761
00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:47,200
it's not that but it's i think those of

762
00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:49,360
us who do come from a background where

763
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:50,720
we're not

764
00:25:55,110 --> 00:25:53,039
quick to jump to conclusions like that

765
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:55,120
we are we are eventually persuaded by

766
00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:57,440
the overwhelming evidence and like you

767
00:26:01,510 --> 00:25:59,760
say that real deep sense of

768
00:26:02,789 --> 00:26:01,520
purpose and meaning behind it that is

769
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:02,799
it's hard to

770
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:06,480
quantify but it's very very real

771
00:26:11,430 --> 00:26:08,080
absolutely

772
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:11,440
what do you see as being

773
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,520
really the benefits of exploring this

774
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:15,840
you know the this consciousness side of

775
00:26:19,269 --> 00:26:17,520
things like how do you like how has it

776
00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:19,279
benefited you how do you like why would

777
00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:20,960
you recommend it to people what is that

778
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:23,120
like for you

779
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:24,480
well i mentioned earlier the

780
00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:26,240
re-enchantment of the world i think

781
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:28,880
that's that's a big part of it um

782
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:30,320
you know this

783
00:26:34,630 --> 00:26:32,960
like you mentioned earlier uh you know

784
00:26:36,630 --> 00:26:34,640
when you start seeing this data and the

785
00:26:39,110 --> 00:26:36,640
way that the data overlaps

786
00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:39,120
um and not just from the ufo phenomenon

787
00:26:43,990 --> 00:26:42,080
but you know the implications of quantum

788
00:26:45,669 --> 00:26:44,000
experiments that were done 100 years ago

789
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:45,679
the parapsychological research that's

790
00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:48,960
like 150 years old now

791
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:52,159
you start recognizing that

792
00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:54,080
matter or the material world or a

793
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:56,240
physicalist model doesn't seem like the

794
00:26:59,909 --> 00:26:57,039
best

795
00:27:01,029 --> 00:26:59,919
explanation for what's going on so

796
00:27:03,269 --> 00:27:01,039
part of the reason why there's so much

797
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:03,279
resistance to the idea of the ufo

798
00:27:07,029 --> 00:27:04,880
phenomenon especially when the high

799
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:07,039
strangeness factor is brought in you

800
00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:07,919
know

801
00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:09,679
is because it just doesn't fit with a

802
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:12,080
physicalist paradigm right it's not it's

803
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:13,919
one thing if it's aliens traveling in

804
00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:15,360
starships

805
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:16,960
you know at greater than light speed or

806
00:27:20,789 --> 00:27:18,720
something and getting here people can

807
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:20,799
handle that but when you start saying

808
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:22,799
they're um you know there's a spiritual

809
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:24,080
element they

810
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:25,120
seem to

811
00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:26,640
manipulate space time in ways that we

812
00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:28,000
don't understand

813
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:29,120
um

814
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:32,320
then it begins to call into question

815
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:34,640
whether our model is workable at all and

816
00:27:38,230 --> 00:27:36,240
as jacques villa said

817
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:38,240
what the ufo phenomenon teaches us is

818
00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:40,000
that we don't really understand space

819
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:41,600
time at all because

820
00:27:44,470 --> 00:27:43,039
and again that's what i love about him

821
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:44,480
and his approach

822
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:46,559
is that rather than saying oh that can't

823
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:48,720
be true because it doesn't fit our model

824
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:50,880
you look at the data and say the data is

825
00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:52,480
clearly saying this consistently

826
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:54,640
repeatedly in people's experience

827
00:27:59,190 --> 00:27:56,559
therefore if our model doesn't allow for

828
00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:59,200
it our model must be incomplete

829
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:01,039
and that kept happening to the point

830
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:03,919
where there was so much data

831
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:05,840
you know staying standing against that

832
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,120
model outlier data right that eventually

833
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:11,279
uh i began to look for alternate models

834
00:28:16,710 --> 00:28:13,600
of reality you know and

835
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:16,720
you start asking what would a model of

836
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:19,520
reality be like such that it could

837
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:21,360
incorporate all these different elements

838
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:22,799
psy phenomena

839
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:24,720
people experiencing the dead people

840
00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:26,480
having near-death experiences people

841
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:27,760
contacting

842
00:28:31,990 --> 00:28:30,080
beings that seem supernatural how is all

843
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:32,000
this possible you know how how is

844
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:34,320
telepathy possible not only with aliens

845
00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:36,159
but with human beings across you know to

846
00:28:38,950 --> 00:28:37,360
each other

847
00:28:40,950 --> 00:28:38,960
and for me

848
00:28:44,230 --> 00:28:40,960
that led more in the direction of

849
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:44,240
idealism and the sense that ultimately

850
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,520
uh

851
00:28:49,269 --> 00:28:47,440
the material world as we see it that we

852
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:49,279
construct is more like

853
00:28:53,669 --> 00:28:50,880
a dream space you know when you're in a

854
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:53,679
dream uh you know i i actually can lucid

855
00:28:57,669 --> 00:28:55,600
dream and when i'm in a dream

856
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:57,679
i've deliberately tried to investigate

857
00:29:00,950 --> 00:28:59,840
this you know like a sherlock holmes

858
00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:00,960
kind of case

859
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:02,640
and i i have not been able to find

860
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:04,960
anything that feels less real there and

861
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:06,880
yet no one would say to me that that's a

862
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:08,640
material world right they would say that

863
00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:11,360
you're again from a physicalist paradigm

864
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:13,279
your brain your physical brain the gray

865
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:15,760
matter in my skull is somehow generating

866
00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:17,120
all of that phenomena that i'm

867
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:18,480
experiencing

868
00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:21,200
and yet it feels just as real so

869
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:22,960
when i come back into the waking state

870
00:29:26,149 --> 00:29:24,720
i'm less convinced that just because i

871
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:26,159
can knock on this desk and it makes a

872
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:28,240
sound and it feels solid i'm less

873
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:29,360
convinced that that means it's

874
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:31,679
ultimately real or that's its uh you

875
00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:34,399
know underlying nature

876
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:35,279
so

877
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:36,960
in the long run what that does is it

878
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:39,520
makes you realize ah you know

879
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:41,440
this life is not as simple as i live a

880
00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:43,279
few decades and then i die and then when

881
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:45,760
my body's you know dust there's nothing

882
00:29:51,110 --> 00:29:48,000
to me anymore you actually have this

883
00:29:52,789 --> 00:29:51,120
spiritual sense of this ongoing um

884
00:29:55,029 --> 00:29:52,799
journey you're on and it's a meaningful

885
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,039
journey and there's purpose and maybe it

886
00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:57,760
extends over multiple lifetimes and that

887
00:30:01,350 --> 00:29:59,440
i'm connected to you and everyone else

888
00:30:02,149 --> 00:30:01,360
right that we're somehow all part of

889
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:02,159
some

890
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:04,000
undercurrent of consciousness that's

891
00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:05,120
also

892
00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:07,120
purposefully driven and moving towards

893
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:09,840
something greater harmony or something

894
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:12,000
and so that is uh

895
00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:13,279
just a much

896
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:15,919
more enchanting and rich

897
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:17,600
vibrant world to wake up to in the

898
00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:20,000
morning uh it's been my experience i'm

899
00:30:24,389 --> 00:30:22,240
sure it's been yours too sounding based

900
00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:24,399
on what you said has changed for you so

901
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:26,480
for me it really does

902
00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:28,480
change your entire perspective and your

903
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:30,000
outlook and it makes it much more

904
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:32,080
meaningful but again it's not because i

905
00:30:35,830 --> 00:30:33,600
wanted meeting that i made it up and

906
00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:35,840
then tried to find evidence i found the

907
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:37,760
evidence pointing in this direction and

908
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:40,799
as an implication it just leads to a a

909
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:42,159
perspective that feels so much more

910
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:44,640
meaningful

911
00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:47,520
yeah i i really get that and i think i

912
00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:49,120
think what's interesting is i think that

913
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:52,159
it's easy for people to maybe dismiss

914
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:53,600
that and say

915
00:30:57,750 --> 00:30:56,640
oh that's wishful thinking or you know

916
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:57,760
that sort of thing like you're just

917
00:31:01,909 --> 00:30:58,799
telling yourself what you want to

918
00:31:03,669 --> 00:31:01,919
believe but i think in in

919
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:03,679
coming to the other side and trying to

920
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:06,240
talk to people about this and and

921
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:08,640
you know who are in the place that i was

922
00:31:11,509 --> 00:31:10,399
the thing that i actually kind of see

923
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:11,519
and i think i

924
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:13,760
i think i see in my past self as well is

925
00:31:16,149 --> 00:31:14,640
like

926
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:16,159
that that doesn't make it easier to

927
00:31:19,269 --> 00:31:18,000
believe in some ways i think it makes it

928
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:19,279
harder

929
00:31:23,269 --> 00:31:20,880
i think especially if you're somebody

930
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:23,279
who is in that kind of like materialist

931
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:25,679
mindset in this post-modern world and

932
00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:27,360
you know we're so

933
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:28,960
uh it's all about we're all so

934
00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:30,640
disconnected it's all about rugged

935
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:32,559
individualism it's all you know you got

936
00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:35,440
to make it on your own and and to say

937
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:37,919
no actually like the force is kind of

938
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:41,039
real we're all connected there's meaning

939
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:43,120
behind everything we're more powerful

940
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:45,039
together you know i

941
00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:47,039
and all of that's real you know it's

942
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:48,960
it's not just a feeling that you have a

943
00:31:52,870 --> 00:31:50,880
wishful thought that it that that's a

944
00:31:54,389 --> 00:31:52,880
reality that you can tap into

945
00:31:56,549 --> 00:31:54,399
i think that that's almost scarier for

946
00:31:59,029 --> 00:31:56,559
people to believe because

947
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:59,039
if you were to believe that

948
00:32:03,590 --> 00:32:01,600
and then realize that you were wrong or

949
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:03,600
to have that taken away like i feel like

950
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:05,840
that's actually a a big emotional

951
00:32:10,389 --> 00:32:07,760
investment and i see that

952
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:10,399
that fear in people does that make sense

953
00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:12,240
it does and i think that there's two

954
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:13,760
ways that applies it applies for

955
00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:15,919
individuals but also applies for our

956
00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:17,279
entire culture

957
00:32:22,549 --> 00:32:20,000
so for instance you know we

958
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:22,559
we with a scientific mindset who've come

959
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:24,799
out of uh you know european philosophy

960
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:26,320
and european history for instance and

961
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:28,799
how that's dominated the the way that

962
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:30,559
our view of reality with the physicalist

963
00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:32,640
paradigm has been put together

964
00:32:37,509 --> 00:32:34,720
you can't divorce that

965
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:37,519
from where it came from and it came from

966
00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:39,600
a europe that came out of

967
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:41,840
uh an era where the church had all the

968
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:43,760
power where everything was seen as

969
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:46,559
divinely uh you know inspired and

970
00:32:49,509 --> 00:32:47,840
controlled

971
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:49,519
and um

972
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:53,679
science emerged from that right and so

973
00:32:57,830 --> 00:32:55,600
you think back to how a lot of our

974
00:32:59,669 --> 00:32:57,840
entire culture was about uh you know

975
00:33:01,990 --> 00:32:59,679
fool me one shame on you fool me twice

976
00:33:05,430 --> 00:33:02,000
shame on me right so

977
00:33:08,149 --> 00:33:05,440
there was this kind of sense that

978
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:08,159
almost like a self-hatred uh

979
00:33:11,909 --> 00:33:10,240
about our cultural history that we gave

980
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:11,919
into that how could we possibly have

981
00:33:15,509 --> 00:33:13,360
believed that how could our ancestors

982
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:15,519
have been duped by this silly religious

983
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:16,480
thinking

984
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:18,480
seems so silly to put the earth at the

985
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:20,080
center of the universe and who were we

986
00:33:24,389 --> 00:33:22,080
in our hubris right

987
00:33:27,430 --> 00:33:24,399
and so then we kind of as i've often

988
00:33:30,470 --> 00:33:27,440
found we swing the pendulum to the very

989
00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:30,480
far end of the spectrum right and we say

990
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:33,200
there is no spirit you know at first we

991
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:34,320
first went through a period where the

992
00:33:38,549 --> 00:33:35,919
church then had control of the spirit

993
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:38,559
world right that was their domain and

994
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:41,039
science could look at the the the you

995
00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:42,640
know the waking state in the material

996
00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:44,880
world and what the world was made of and

997
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:46,960
eventually when science gained in power

998
00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:49,279
it said ah forget it spirit doesn't

999
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:51,600
exist you know that's just all mushy

1000
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:54,000
stuff that's in your brain which is just

1001
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:55,519
or your mind which is just an

1002
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:58,000
epiphenomenon of your brain

1003
00:34:02,149 --> 00:34:00,480
in other words it's all reducible to uh

1004
00:34:04,389 --> 00:34:02,159
you know neurochemical reactions and

1005
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:04,399
that's it electrochemical stuff and

1006
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:06,399
that's it ultimately all that really

1007
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:08,960
exists is matter

1008
00:34:13,589 --> 00:34:10,720
so we have that entire history as a

1009
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:13,599
culture right and um one of the things

1010
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:15,040
that integral theory that i mentioned

1011
00:34:19,030 --> 00:34:16,879
earlier talks about is this this notion

1012
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:19,040
of a pre-trans fallacy

1013
00:34:23,750 --> 00:34:22,480
and so what that talks about is how we

1014
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:23,760
if someone hears what you and i are

1015
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:24,960
talking about right and they're coming

1016
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:26,879
from a physicalist paradigm they might

1017
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:28,879
say ah those silly people they're

1018
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:30,879
regressing back to a religious mindset

1019
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:32,399
you know you know

1020
00:34:36,069 --> 00:34:34,159
they are they from medieval europe like

1021
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:36,079
what's what's their deal right

1022
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:36,800
and

1023
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:38,320
so what happens there is what we're

1024
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:39,440
doing is

1025
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:41,679
being thoroughly embedded in the

1026
00:34:46,230 --> 00:34:43,760
physicalist paradigm being raised you

1027
00:34:48,310 --> 00:34:46,240
know in in the world we were raised in

1028
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:48,320
uh we're saying the evidence has been so

1029
00:34:52,069 --> 00:34:50,000
overwhelming for us

1030
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:52,079
both individually in our own lives and

1031
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:53,760
in the lives of people around us and

1032
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:55,280
what we're seeing about reality that

1033
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:56,879
like you say we actually had a really

1034
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:59,440
really high bar to ever be convinced

1035
00:35:03,270 --> 00:35:00,960
that the physicalist paradigm was not

1036
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:03,280
correct because everything in us

1037
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:04,160
you know

1038
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:06,000
you race in a culture you just assume

1039
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:08,400
that your your parents and your teachers

1040
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:09,920
are telling you the truth right you just

1041
00:35:13,670 --> 00:35:11,520
assume that they are so

1042
00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:13,680
it takes a lot of

1043
00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:16,400
dissonance built up by evidence to make

1044
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:18,160
you ever question that

1045
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:19,760
so i think it's it's really interesting

1046
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:21,040
because

1047
00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:23,920
like you say we actually i think are

1048
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:25,760
the hardest ones to persuade when we're

1049
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:27,599
raised in that and

1050
00:35:30,150 --> 00:35:28,560
i think

1051
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:30,160
not only as individuals but as an entire

1052
00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:32,160
culture so our entire culture i think is

1053
00:35:38,790 --> 00:35:37,190
it looks like a regression to some

1054
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:38,800
people when actually it's a

1055
00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:41,760
transcendence to something higher

1056
00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:44,720
where there's more that's included again

1057
00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:46,240
and it's not about going back to a

1058
00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:48,320
previous model it's saying wait a second

1059
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:50,240
some of that stuff the shamanic culture

1060
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:51,520
right some of the things that we just

1061
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:54,560
assumed was was magical thinking based

1062
00:35:57,589 --> 00:35:55,920
on people who just didn't understand

1063
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:57,599
science we say no

1064
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:58,640
science

1065
00:36:02,150 --> 00:36:00,640
allows us insight into a certain aspect

1066
00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:02,160
of reality but there's more than that

1067
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:04,720
and it's not just subjective mushy stuff

1068
00:36:09,109 --> 00:36:06,640
in our heads there's something really

1069
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:09,119
there there's an interiority to life and

1070
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:10,800
this all comes back

1071
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:12,480
for us and like you say i think we're

1072
00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:14,320
the hardest ones to persuade

1073
00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:15,920
and all i would say is and i'm sure you

1074
00:36:20,390 --> 00:36:17,920
feel this way too

1075
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:20,400
for me it gives me uh

1076
00:36:24,310 --> 00:36:22,560
grace for people in any kind of world

1077
00:36:26,150 --> 00:36:24,320
view right because i've been there i

1078
00:36:28,550 --> 00:36:26,160
know what it feels like to be completely

1079
00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:28,560
convinced of one perspective

1080
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:31,040
and then change and and when you change

1081
00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:33,599
and you adopt a new world view hopefully

1082
00:36:36,310 --> 00:36:34,960
you hold it more loosely because you've

1083
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:36,320
been through that once before at least

1084
00:36:40,069 --> 00:36:37,599
or twice

1085
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:40,079
um i've been through several right and

1086
00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:41,520
and so you hold it more loosely and you

1087
00:36:45,349 --> 00:36:43,599
recognize that what you think about the

1088
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:45,359
world today how you conceive of the

1089
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:47,520
world in reality will probably also

1090
00:36:51,109 --> 00:36:49,359
evolve 10 years from now that's just

1091
00:36:52,790 --> 00:36:51,119
what's always been my experience why

1092
00:36:55,109 --> 00:36:52,800
would that change now

1093
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:55,119
but i think the trajectory is into more

1094
00:37:00,150 --> 00:36:58,000
meaning um more depth more richness not

1095
00:37:02,069 --> 00:37:00,160
the other way around

1096
00:37:03,349 --> 00:37:02,079
yeah i really get that and resonate with

1097
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:03,359
it i think

1098
00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:04,800
you know going back to what we were

1099
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:06,320
talking about kind of like this feeling

1100
00:37:13,990 --> 00:37:07,119
of

1101
00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:14,000
i feel like that's made me more

1102
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:15,839
empathetic to other people in their

1103
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:16,880
journeys

1104
00:37:21,190 --> 00:37:19,280
as well you know because i don't know

1105
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:21,200
where they are in their journey and you

1106
00:37:23,670 --> 00:37:22,400
know i

1107
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:23,680
don't even really know where i am in my

1108
00:37:27,910 --> 00:37:26,000
journey if i'm being honest you know and

1109
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:27,920
it just i think it's given me that sort

1110
00:37:31,270 --> 00:37:30,000
of understanding is as well that you

1111
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:31,280
know maybe this is just part of their

1112
00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:32,800
story getting them to where they need to

1113
00:37:34,950 --> 00:37:33,839
go and

1114
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:34,960
you know

1115
00:37:38,069 --> 00:37:36,400
right and and looking back at your own

1116
00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:38,079
life i'm sure you can remember that it's

1117
00:37:42,150 --> 00:37:39,680
in some ways it's a pretty

1118
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:42,160
uh hopeless journey in some ways i mean

1119
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:43,520
you can sort of buckle down and say i'm

1120
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:44,880
going to make the most of it i'm here

1121
00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:46,880
for a few few decades and like you say

1122
00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:48,960
i'm going to be this rugged individual

1123
00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:51,040
and carve my you know

1124
00:37:54,950 --> 00:37:53,200
carve my way into the into the world and

1125
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:54,960
leave a mark on the wood and then i'm

1126
00:37:57,109 --> 00:37:55,839
gone

1127
00:37:58,790 --> 00:37:57,119
uh

1128
00:38:02,470 --> 00:37:58,800
and

1129
00:38:03,829 --> 00:38:02,480
as much as we have these kind of like um

1130
00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:03,839
you know superficial kind of

1131
00:38:08,230 --> 00:38:05,440
encouragements in our society the

1132
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:08,240
materialist society it's actually a

1133
00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:10,160
pretty hopeless endeavor in some ways

1134
00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:11,839
you know it's just like

1135
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:13,520
uh i think back to like you know

1136
00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:15,200
radiohead songs and you know just become

1137
00:38:19,510 --> 00:38:17,280
this more productive member of society

1138
00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:19,520
fitter happier you know

1139
00:38:23,430 --> 00:38:21,359
you get a career you get what you want

1140
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:23,440
you buy a house these things and you

1141
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:25,119
find it doesn't actually make you any

1142
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:26,560
happier doesn't

1143
00:38:31,829 --> 00:38:29,040
fulfill this deep need for

1144
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:31,839
purpose that's in us so when i see

1145
00:38:35,349 --> 00:38:33,599
people who are still in that

1146
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:35,359
i have grace for them and i understand

1147
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:36,960
that that's a

1148
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:38,880
um i know they're convinced of it but in

1149
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:40,560
some ways you know that's not a fun

1150
00:38:43,510 --> 00:38:42,000
place to be even if they're not totally

1151
00:38:45,510 --> 00:38:43,520
in touch with it not being a fun place

1152
00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:45,520
like when you look back at your own life

1153
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:46,960
five years from now five years ago i'm

1154
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:48,240
not sure if you

1155
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:49,440
felt then

1156
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:51,680
uh or were self-aware about the the lack

1157
00:38:55,750 --> 00:38:54,079
of overarching purpose but i think that

1158
00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:55,760
leaves a lot of people hollow in our

1159
00:39:00,790 --> 00:38:57,599
modern society

1160
00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:00,800
i completely agree and i i try very hard

1161
00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:02,800
to never say to anyone

1162
00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:04,560
who i think might take it the wrong way

1163
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:05,760
that i feel

1164
00:39:08,710 --> 00:39:07,440
that i do feel sad

1165
00:39:11,030 --> 00:39:08,720
for people and i don't mean that in a

1166
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:11,040
condescending way at all i mean i i feel

1167
00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:13,520
sad for me when i look back you know

1168
00:39:16,470 --> 00:39:14,480
because i

1169
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:16,480
i was self-aware enough to recognize

1170
00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:18,320
that there wasn't

1171
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:20,160
a lot underpinning

1172
00:39:24,790 --> 00:39:22,079
life and i had to keep moving really

1173
00:39:28,230 --> 00:39:24,800
fast to keep from recognizing that or

1174
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:28,240
from letting that i really set in and

1175
00:39:32,069 --> 00:39:29,599
and when i think of all the things that

1176
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:32,079
i did to outrun that thought it just

1177
00:39:36,950 --> 00:39:34,160
seems crazy to me now and i

1178
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:36,960
and i'm yeah i so i i never want people

1179
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:38,160
to feel like i'm being condescending

1180
00:39:41,829 --> 00:39:40,400
when i say that but i do feel

1181
00:39:43,349 --> 00:39:41,839
i feel a lot of empathy for it because i

1182
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:43,359
know how hard it was for me

1183
00:39:46,630 --> 00:39:44,880
right exactly

1184
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:46,640
yeah

1185
00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:47,760
so

1186
00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:49,440
talking about to make a little bit of a

1187
00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:51,200
transition um i don't want to rehash it

1188
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:52,160
too much because i know we already

1189
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:53,520
talked about it and i want to make sure

1190
00:39:57,510 --> 00:39:55,599
we get the most out of our time but um i

1191
00:39:59,829 --> 00:39:57,520
know that you had this really cool

1192
00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:59,839
experience where you went to the monroe

1193
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:00,960
institute

1194
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:03,200
um with a bunch of people and did sort

1195
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:05,839
of a human and initiated contact is it

1196
00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:08,240
event or experience the e i never know

1197
00:40:16,630 --> 00:40:14,390
yeah

1198
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:16,640
okay cool i i i switch it back and forth

1199
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:19,359
all the time but um yeah i would love if

1200
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:21,119
you would just like from a high level

1201
00:40:25,589 --> 00:40:23,760
like sort of explain number one what is

1202
00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:25,599
human initiated contact and like what

1203
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:28,079
does that look like and number two

1204
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:30,000
you know what benefit is there from

1205
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:31,440
doing these things

1206
00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:33,440
in groups like why why did that group

1207
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:35,359
sort of convene itself

1208
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:39,030
so that's you know speaking of

1209
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:40,800
synchronicity that that's front and

1210
00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:42,960
center for this particular story because

1211
00:40:49,829 --> 00:40:47,750
to trace it back a while a friend of

1212
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:49,839
mine named chris bledsoe

1213
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:52,480
has had these outrageous experiences

1214
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:54,160
with the phenomenon

1215
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:56,720
um going back decades now in fact when

1216
00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:58,319
he looks back at his life

1217
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:01,440
his entire life has been

1218
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:03,760
underpinned by this interaction with

1219
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:04,800
these

1220
00:41:07,829 --> 00:41:07,040
non-human intelligences

1221
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:07,839
and

1222
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:10,960
at one point um he had someone visit him

1223
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:12,560
a guy that works for the government a

1224
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:14,800
guy i know named david

1225
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:17,440
and is often the case with chris

1226
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:18,960
you know chris is a really down-to-earth

1227
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:22,319
guy lives here in north carolina

1228
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:24,000
really humble guy

1229
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:25,040
and

1230
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:29,680
recognize from the government or the

1231
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:32,560
private world end up visiting him

1232
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:34,160
because they hear stories and then they

1233
00:41:38,550 --> 00:41:36,640
end up having experiences where they too

1234
00:41:39,670 --> 00:41:38,560
uh you know for instance to give you an

1235
00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:39,680
example

1236
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:42,160
when david was with him in his house uh

1237
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:43,760
they were just talking right sitting on

1238
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:45,839
the couches inside the house

1239
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:48,160
and then chris suddenly says oh i think

1240
00:41:51,190 --> 00:41:49,599
they're here

1241
00:41:54,309 --> 00:41:51,200
and that's often what happens for him

1242
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:54,319
and then david said what and ran outside

1243
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:56,079
and sure enough you know these these

1244
00:42:00,150 --> 00:41:57,920
giant orbs would suddenly manifest in

1245
00:42:01,190 --> 00:42:00,160
the sky and then go shooting by right

1246
00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:01,200
and

1247
00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:02,960
so what's fascinating about that is not

1248
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:04,240
just that these things showed up but

1249
00:42:08,230 --> 00:42:05,760
chris knew before it even was going to

1250
00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:08,240
happen that they were about to arrive

1251
00:42:12,390 --> 00:42:10,319
and even people like you know retired

1252
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:12,400
colonel john alexander a super

1253
00:42:17,109 --> 00:42:15,599
straight-laced scientifically minded guy

1254
00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:17,119
who worked on a lot of you know cutting

1255
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:20,480
edge tech in the military um non-lethal

1256
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:22,640
weapons was his main thing he had the

1257
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:24,480
same experience where he was with chris

1258
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:26,880
and sitting on on the porch and chris

1259
00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:28,640
said oh speaking of them i think they're

1260
00:42:33,430 --> 00:42:31,359
here and sure enough something showed up

1261
00:42:34,470 --> 00:42:33,440
and you know a giant flash over the

1262
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:34,480
trees

1263
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:36,800
um that's unmistakable for anything else

1264
00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:39,119
i mean just to be really clear to people

1265
00:42:42,790 --> 00:42:41,680
all the usual prosaic explanations are

1266
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:42,800
out the door

1267
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:45,119
john alexander you know air force

1268
00:42:47,750 --> 00:42:46,079
colonel

1269
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:47,760
knows what to look for knew that this

1270
00:42:51,670 --> 00:42:49,920
was a genuine anomalous phenomena that

1271
00:42:53,109 --> 00:42:51,680
he was experiencing

1272
00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:53,119
so

1273
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:56,400
what happened was after that event david

1274
00:43:01,270 --> 00:42:58,400
was changed by it right so david went

1275
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:01,280
back to his his house in virginia

1276
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:04,079
and said what do i do with this like i

1277
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:05,599
feel changed i feel like there's this

1278
00:43:10,230 --> 00:43:08,640
overarching purpose um these these

1279
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:10,240
things that show up they don't just show

1280
00:43:14,230 --> 00:43:12,560
up on nothing else like i feel like this

1281
00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:14,240
is somehow connected to consciousness

1282
00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:15,520
and all of us being connected and

1283
00:43:19,109 --> 00:43:17,599
connected to them and what are the next

1284
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:19,119
steps speaking of vocation like we

1285
00:43:23,589 --> 00:43:21,760
talked about and so his vocation or his

1286
00:43:25,109 --> 00:43:23,599
calling was to

1287
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:25,119
we need to take the next step we need to

1288
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:27,440
gather people together and investigate

1289
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:29,119
this further and try to

1290
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:31,920
actually initiate contact with these

1291
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:34,880
others whatever they are right

1292
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:35,920
and

1293
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:37,200
speaking of whatever they are that's a

1294
00:43:42,069 --> 00:43:39,359
difficult question to answer and even in

1295
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:42,079
chris bledsoe's experience alone

1296
00:43:46,069 --> 00:43:44,079
there's so many elements that are from

1297
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:46,079
across you know the spectrum

1298
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:48,880
stuff that feels your standard ufo or or

1299
00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:50,480
just something like a spiritual being

1300
00:43:55,109 --> 00:43:53,040
like this glowing lady that showed up

1301
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:55,119
very similar to the the story of fatima

1302
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:58,079
portugal that happened in 1917 that was

1303
00:44:02,309 --> 00:44:00,160
eventually decided as a

1304
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:02,319
a you know a manifestation of the virgin

1305
00:44:06,309 --> 00:44:05,119
mary by the catholic church officially

1306
00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:06,319
so

1307
00:44:10,309 --> 00:44:08,560
david then started asking around

1308
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:10,319
gathering people that were either you

1309
00:44:14,230 --> 00:44:12,480
know cutting edge researchers looking

1310
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:14,240
not just at ufos but also the

1311
00:44:17,510 --> 00:44:16,000
consciousness connection

1312
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:17,520
and gathering together different

1313
00:44:19,910 --> 00:44:18,880
experiences from different parts of the

1314
00:44:21,990 --> 00:44:19,920
world

1315
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:22,000
and he's spearheaded as a sense of

1316
00:44:27,030 --> 00:44:24,880
calling this event at monroe and and we

1317
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:27,040
chose monroe because or he chose monroe

1318
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:28,319
because

1319
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:29,680
he knew also that it was somehow

1320
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:31,920
connected to out-of-body experiences and

1321
00:44:36,470 --> 00:44:33,760
sai phenomena and all that and astral

1322
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:36,480
projection is somehow all connected uh

1323
00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:38,319
even though that sounds bizarre and

1324
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:39,920
outrageous to people you know at first

1325
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:41,040
blush

1326
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:43,200
so he called up on this sense of calling

1327
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:44,640
he called up the monroe institute and

1328
00:44:47,430 --> 00:44:46,079
said hey i would love to

1329
00:44:49,109 --> 00:44:47,440
organize this private event and they

1330
00:44:50,950 --> 00:44:49,119
said well sorry we don't we don't host

1331
00:44:52,950 --> 00:44:50,960
private events we have our own programs

1332
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:52,960
you can come and take part of he said no

1333
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:54,319
this is something

1334
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:55,680
revolutionary that's not been done

1335
00:44:59,030 --> 00:44:57,520
before it's the first time thing but i

1336
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:59,040
really want to do it there

1337
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:01,200
so he just didn't take no for an answer

1338
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:03,200
kept calling around talked to different

1339
00:45:06,950 --> 00:45:05,359
board members of the monroe institute

1340
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:06,960
eventually got enough of them on board

1341
00:45:10,069 --> 00:45:08,880
that they agreed like it's almost never

1342
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:10,079
happened i'm not sure if it has ever

1343
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:12,160
happened before that a private event has

1344
00:45:16,150 --> 00:45:14,880
been hosted at the monroe institute

1345
00:45:17,109 --> 00:45:16,160
by the way just in case people aren't

1346
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,119
clear

1347
00:45:21,190 --> 00:45:19,599
bob monroe was this guy who had these

1348
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:21,200
crazy out-of-body experiences in the

1349
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:23,599
1970s where he just found himself coming

1350
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:25,119
out of his body and like looking from

1351
00:45:28,630 --> 00:45:27,040
the ceiling down and seeing his body and

1352
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:28,640
then being able to astrally project

1353
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:30,480
outside of his house and fly in various

1354
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:31,440
things

1355
00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:34,240
and his journey was to figure out

1356
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:36,000
am i going crazy or is this actually

1357
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:38,000
happening and he eventually gathered

1358
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:40,319
together physicists one of which was tom

1359
00:45:44,470 --> 00:45:41,920
campbell who now has his own thing that

1360
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:44,480
he's doing around consciousness

1361
00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:46,960
and tom campbell went in as a as a again

1362
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:49,599
a mainline physicist with a scientific

1363
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:51,200
paradigm

1364
00:45:54,230 --> 00:45:52,960
holding to the physicalist model and he

1365
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:54,240
too started having out-of-body

1366
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:55,599
experiences and realized there's more to

1367
00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:57,440
reality than what we thought

1368
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:58,480
anyway

1369
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:00,400
so david calls together these different

1370
00:46:05,829 --> 00:46:04,240
people and says um you know let's

1371
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:05,839
because there's a sense of meaning and

1372
00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:07,920
purpose and connection to these specific

1373
00:46:11,270 --> 00:46:10,000
others i don't want to dismiss people's

1374
00:46:13,349 --> 00:46:11,280
experiences when they have negative

1375
00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:13,359
experiences um

1376
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:15,040
there's a vast assortment and i think

1377
00:46:19,349 --> 00:46:16,560
one of the biggest challenges for people

1378
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:19,359
is recognizing not just that some

1379
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:20,800
others might be here but there might be

1380
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:23,040
a multitude of others that are different

1381
00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:25,119
groups from different origins

1382
00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:27,200
but these specific ones that david's

1383
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:28,960
interacted with that chris bledsoe has

1384
00:46:32,069 --> 00:46:30,480
interacted with that i've interacted

1385
00:46:33,349 --> 00:46:32,079
with have always been positive

1386
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:33,359
encounters

1387
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:34,560
so

1388
00:46:38,230 --> 00:46:36,560
we thought let's take this or he thought

1389
00:46:40,630 --> 00:46:38,240
i should say let's take this to the next

1390
00:46:42,870 --> 00:46:40,640
level let's gather people who are having

1391
00:46:44,790 --> 00:46:42,880
expertise in this or who are

1392
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:44,800
prime contactees meaning they have a lot

1393
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:46,480
of these kinds of experiences and can

1394
00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:48,560
seemingly manifest things

1395
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:50,480
and gather together and in a really

1396
00:46:54,309 --> 00:46:52,240
dedicated way

1397
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:54,319
pursue things like understanding psy

1398
00:46:59,430 --> 00:46:56,480
phenomena and actually practicing it

1399
00:47:02,790 --> 00:46:59,440
together and and forming a coherent

1400
00:47:04,630 --> 00:47:02,800
field together and and using that energy

1401
00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:04,640
to try and reach out and connect because

1402
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:06,960
part of the underlying premise is if if

1403
00:47:11,030 --> 00:47:08,400
we're all connected

1404
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:11,040
then you know if a multitude comes

1405
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:12,480
together

1406
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:14,960
and has a shared intentionality to make

1407
00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:16,880
connection then it just creates an even

1408
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:19,200
stronger energy field where that

1409
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:22,079
connection can have to to do that to

1410
00:47:24,710 --> 00:47:23,599
bond together and to try and make

1411
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:24,720
contact

1412
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:26,720
and bring in the scientific stuff like

1413
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:28,960
we had cameras there to film the entire

1414
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:31,440
thing we had uh you know scientific

1415
00:47:34,630 --> 00:47:33,200
sensors like random number generators

1416
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:34,640
there that were running at the same time

1417
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:36,480
we were having these encounters

1418
00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:38,640
and uh and also use like astral

1419
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:40,400
projection that they use as part of

1420
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:42,960
their hemisink technology right there at

1421
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:45,440
monroe and combined all of that to have

1422
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:46,800
these experiences and it was a really

1423
00:47:49,829 --> 00:47:48,880
profound experience happened at the end

1424
00:47:52,630 --> 00:47:49,839
of may

1425
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:52,640
uh about 19 of us gathered together

1426
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:55,280
combination of you know ex-military but

1427
00:47:59,670 --> 00:47:57,520
that kind of had looked into some

1428
00:48:02,549 --> 00:47:59,680
unusual aspects of reality uh so people

1429
00:48:04,230 --> 00:48:02,559
like john alexander like i said uh

1430
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:04,240
you know historically

1431
00:48:09,109 --> 00:48:06,400
uh astounding remote viewers like joe

1432
00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:09,119
mcmonagle were there uh who's again

1433
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:10,720
speaking of sci phenomena the stuff that

1434
00:48:14,549 --> 00:48:13,440
he's remote viewed is astounding he he

1435
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:14,559
worked for

1436
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:16,160
you know project stargate that was run

1437
00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:18,720
out of the cia in the 1970s

1438
00:48:23,349 --> 00:48:21,040
even looking into you know

1439
00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:23,359
military apparatus in the soviet union

1440
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:25,760
and again time and time again through

1441
00:48:30,390 --> 00:48:27,280
other means that intelligence was

1442
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:30,400
confirmed as accurate uh so we did all

1443
00:48:37,030 --> 00:48:32,000
this together and and yeah it was a

1444
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:38,950
that's so cool it makes me it's like

1445
00:48:41,829 --> 00:48:40,480
very badass and i'm just very glad that

1446
00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:41,839
it's even happening

1447
00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:43,760
um i think that's great

1448
00:48:50,069 --> 00:48:45,200
i've been wanting to get to the monroe

1449
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:52,069
i think everybody that's even slightly

1450
00:48:56,309 --> 00:48:54,160
interested in this stuff has probably

1451
00:48:58,150 --> 00:48:56,319
listened to binaural beats or some

1452
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:58,160
hemisync stuff that's on youtube right

1453
00:49:01,109 --> 00:48:59,599
that's out there

1454
00:49:03,030 --> 00:49:01,119
this is kind of you know next level

1455
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:03,040
because they have uh

1456
00:49:07,190 --> 00:49:04,800
some more recent programs that they run

1457
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:07,200
only there uh

1458
00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:08,559
so they're actually and they you know

1459
00:49:11,910 --> 00:49:10,319
you get into this tiny cubicle and it's

1460
00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:11,920
completely blacked out

1461
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:13,200
you know you can't see the hand in front

1462
00:49:17,190 --> 00:49:14,960
of your face kind of thing

1463
00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:17,200
and then you use headphones and or they

1464
00:49:20,150 --> 00:49:18,880
actually have speakers that are beaming

1465
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:20,160
uh you know

1466
00:49:23,589 --> 00:49:21,839
this audio signal into the different

1467
00:49:24,470 --> 00:49:23,599
parts of your brain and the idea is that

1468
00:49:26,069 --> 00:49:24,480
you know

1469
00:49:27,109 --> 00:49:26,079
the two hemispheres of your brain end up

1470
00:49:28,710 --> 00:49:27,119
sinking

1471
00:49:30,069 --> 00:49:28,720
uh because of these slightly different

1472
00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:30,079
tones that are there so even though you

1473
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:32,800
might be hearing someone talking or some

1474
00:49:36,309 --> 00:49:34,559
music underlyingly they're also using

1475
00:49:38,069 --> 00:49:36,319
this audio technology where the

1476
00:49:40,390 --> 00:49:38,079
different hemispheres of your brain are

1477
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:40,400
being synchronized which then allows for

1478
00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:42,000
an expansion of consciousness makes it

1479
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:43,200
more likely

1480
00:49:47,349 --> 00:49:44,480
not only that you'll have an out-of-body

1481
00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:47,359
experience or astrally project but also

1482
00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:50,480
that your consciousness remains expanded

1483
00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:53,359
so that you can begin to encounter

1484
00:49:56,710 --> 00:49:55,200
some of these other beings and that's a

1485
00:49:57,589 --> 00:49:56,720
big part of what i think it's about is

1486
00:50:01,910 --> 00:49:57,599
that

1487
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:01,920
makes us more aware of what's already

1488
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:04,240
there we just haven't usually been aware

1489
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:05,520
of it because we have such a narrow

1490
00:50:14,390 --> 00:50:10,950
yeah

1491
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:14,400
really intrigued by i mean everyone's

1492
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:15,440
intrigued by it but it's something i'm

1493
00:50:18,470 --> 00:50:17,520
really intrigued by is the hitchhiker

1494
00:50:20,390 --> 00:50:18,480
effect

1495
00:50:22,549 --> 00:50:20,400
um

1496
00:50:23,589 --> 00:50:22,559
just because i mean it seems like in so

1497
00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:23,599
many ways it seems like one of the

1498
00:50:26,309 --> 00:50:25,200
strangest things you know even if you

1499
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:26,319
hear about everything they're doing it's

1500
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:28,319
skinwalker and all that all the weird

1501
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:29,440
things that have happened there still

1502
00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:31,280
somehow the hitchhiker effect stands out

1503
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:33,280
as being the thing that seems the

1504
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:35,119
hardest to believe right this idea that

1505
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:36,640
the phenomena would follow people home

1506
00:50:41,109 --> 00:50:38,400
and across the country and that it was

1507
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:41,119
transferable in some way but i think

1508
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:42,400
what's really interesting to me about

1509
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,800
that is that we really notice it in that

1510
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:46,800
situation because it's it's associated

1511
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:49,040
with paranormal phenomena but i feel

1512
00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:50,880
like the more that i've

1513
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:51,839
gotten

1514
00:50:56,069 --> 00:50:53,440
become more aware

1515
00:50:57,750 --> 00:50:56,079
of my interior world and like

1516
00:50:59,270 --> 00:50:57,760
you know worked on meditation and

1517
00:51:00,790 --> 00:50:59,280
expanding my consciousness and that sort

1518
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:00,800
of thing that i've become

1519
00:51:04,390 --> 00:51:03,119
incredibly aware of how easily that

1520
00:51:07,109 --> 00:51:04,400
energy

1521
00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:07,119
transfers between people and how quickly

1522
00:51:11,910 --> 00:51:09,280
somebody else's energy can just like

1523
00:51:13,510 --> 00:51:11,920
hijack your entire nervous system

1524
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:13,520
without you even really being aware of

1525
00:51:17,430 --> 00:51:16,000
it and now you're carrying that

1526
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:17,440
with you and it doesn't even have to be

1527
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:18,720
somebody in the same room you can get it

1528
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:21,200
from twitter you know you can get it

1529
00:51:26,069 --> 00:51:24,400
and i i just i feel like those things

1530
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:26,079
might be related and that we just don't

1531
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:27,680
recognize it when it's not it does and

1532
00:51:31,270 --> 00:51:28,800
that's what i was probably getting at

1533
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:31,280
with the the narrow focus is that

1534
00:51:34,470 --> 00:51:32,640
you know it's like they say right if

1535
00:51:36,390 --> 00:51:34,480
you're thinking about you know buying a

1536
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:36,400
red toyota suddenly you start seeing red

1537
00:51:38,950 --> 00:51:37,920
toyota's everywhere you're looking right

1538
00:51:42,790 --> 00:51:38,960
so

1539
00:51:44,470 --> 00:51:42,800
direct our attention to determines what

1540
00:51:47,190 --> 00:51:44,480
we end up seeing

1541
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:47,200
we again are raised in a milieu where

1542
00:51:51,270 --> 00:51:49,040
we're told this is what reality is this

1543
00:51:53,109 --> 00:51:51,280
is what's possible

1544
00:51:54,950 --> 00:51:53,119
and what we don't realize is that a

1545
00:51:57,270 --> 00:51:54,960
combination of that and like you say

1546
00:51:59,589 --> 00:51:57,280
having busy lives

1547
00:52:02,390 --> 00:51:59,599
and needing to navigate the world amidst

1548
00:52:04,390 --> 00:52:02,400
a barrage of data right so what we end

1549
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:04,400
up doing is a combination of our

1550
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:05,920
cultural history what we're taught about

1551
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:08,000
what reality is and just needing to

1552
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:10,640
navigate a fast-paced world we actually

1553
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:14,319
narrow our focus um and not surprisingly

1554
00:52:18,069 --> 00:52:16,240
miss all sorts of elements right because

1555
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:18,079
we're basically willing ourselves to do

1556
00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:21,359
it but unconsciously right

1557
00:52:24,309 --> 00:52:22,880
and like you say once you start

1558
00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:24,319
meditating

1559
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:26,160
and one of the thing one of the most

1560
00:52:30,630 --> 00:52:28,480
profound uh elements of meditation for

1561
00:52:34,069 --> 00:52:30,640
me initially was

1562
00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:34,079
recognizing that when my usual executive

1563
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:35,920
ego that i use to manage

1564
00:52:41,990 --> 00:52:39,440
my my world right when that goes offline

1565
00:52:43,990 --> 00:52:42,000
suddenly my ex my consciousness expands

1566
00:52:45,750 --> 00:52:44,000
and i find myself it feels like i'm

1567
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:45,760
dropping into a stream of consciousness

1568
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:48,400
that's much broader than than me and my

1569
00:52:51,990 --> 00:52:50,960
small world you know and i start even

1570
00:52:54,230 --> 00:52:52,000
having like

1571
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:54,240
a feeling of familiarity almost memories

1572
00:52:58,549 --> 00:52:56,480
that don't exist in this lifetime or

1573
00:53:00,470 --> 00:52:58,559
this iteration i don't know i don't even

1574
00:53:02,710 --> 00:53:00,480
know how to place them but it makes me

1575
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:02,720
aware that there's so much more that i'm

1576
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:05,280
connected to um

1577
00:53:08,549 --> 00:53:07,200
through through you know a medium-like

1578
00:53:11,670 --> 00:53:08,559
meditation

1579
00:53:13,829 --> 00:53:11,680
so absolutely it's uh

1580
00:53:15,510 --> 00:53:13,839
it's a combination of choosing to

1581
00:53:17,829 --> 00:53:15,520
practice these things and becoming

1582
00:53:19,430 --> 00:53:17,839
self-aware about how narrow your focus

1583
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:19,440
was before and i think

1584
00:53:23,510 --> 00:53:21,920
for anyone once they begin to really

1585
00:53:26,150 --> 00:53:23,520
widen that aperture

1586
00:53:27,510 --> 00:53:26,160
and and look for it be you just have you

1587
00:53:29,430 --> 00:53:27,520
know even when you're it's almost like

1588
00:53:31,510 --> 00:53:29,440
holding your peripheral vision open a

1589
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:31,520
little bit to what you might see and

1590
00:53:34,630 --> 00:53:33,119
then you start perceiving more and more

1591
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:34,640
and then like you said

1592
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:36,480
we find that we impact each other that

1593
00:53:39,829 --> 00:53:38,240
there's these seems like these you might

1594
00:53:43,510 --> 00:53:39,839
call them consciousness waves or

1595
00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:43,520
something that um impact each other and

1596
00:53:47,109 --> 00:53:44,880
um

1597
00:53:48,950 --> 00:53:47,119
we might chalk it up beforehand to i had

1598
00:53:50,710 --> 00:53:48,960
bad pizza last night or you know i

1599
00:53:52,309 --> 00:53:50,720
didn't sleep well or whatever and

1600
00:53:53,829 --> 00:53:52,319
realized when really when we traced it

1601
00:53:56,069 --> 00:53:53,839
back we said no i interacted with this

1602
00:53:57,589 --> 00:53:56,079
person and there's some sort of residue

1603
00:53:59,190 --> 00:53:57,599
either good or bad

1604
00:54:04,150 --> 00:53:59,200
that's carrying with me from that

1605
00:54:08,549 --> 00:54:06,630
yeah and that makes a lot of sense

1606
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:08,559
um i know we're coming up on time but

1607
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:09,760
one thing i did want to talk to you

1608
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:11,760
about i i find this really interesting i

1609
00:54:15,190 --> 00:54:13,680
feel like i have not

1610
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:15,200
i don't know what i think about this yet

1611
00:54:19,109 --> 00:54:16,880
and so i've been really interested to

1612
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:19,119
talk to people like you um

1613
00:54:55,990 --> 00:54:20,400
i

1614
00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:56,000
of your

1615
00:55:00,309 --> 00:54:58,240
your thoughts on that and like is it is

1616
00:55:02,309 --> 00:55:00,319
this a dangerous thing for people to do

1617
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:02,319
and like you know or are there ways to

1618
00:55:06,150 --> 00:55:03,839
kind of protect yourself if you are

1619
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:06,160
going to that's a great question and i i

1620
00:55:08,710 --> 00:55:07,599
think a lot of people would wonder that

1621
00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:08,720
when they hear these different

1622
00:55:12,870 --> 00:55:10,720
perspectives

1623
00:55:14,570 --> 00:55:12,880
so a few things i would say

1624
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:14,580
number one is um

1625
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:16,720
[Music]

1626
00:55:19,670 --> 00:55:18,480
when you leave your house at night right

1627
00:55:21,349 --> 00:55:19,680
and you go to different parts of the

1628
00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:21,359
city you probably make decisions about

1629
00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:22,960
which parts you would feel safe going to

1630
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:24,240
and which ones you wouldn't or even what

1631
00:55:26,870 --> 00:55:25,680
time of day you would feel safe going

1632
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:26,880
there or not

1633
00:55:30,630 --> 00:55:29,440
so already we we recognize that we make

1634
00:55:32,069 --> 00:55:30,640
decisions

1635
00:55:34,230 --> 00:55:32,079
you could call it a kind of protocol

1636
00:55:37,910 --> 00:55:34,240
that we will follow when we just go

1637
00:55:39,589 --> 00:55:37,920
about our waking our waking lives right

1638
00:55:41,109 --> 00:55:39,599
but we wouldn't say

1639
00:55:43,109 --> 00:55:41,119
never leave your house

1640
00:55:44,789 --> 00:55:43,119
right it's just dangerous you should bad

1641
00:55:46,549 --> 00:55:44,799
things can happen so never leave your

1642
00:55:48,309 --> 00:55:46,559
house just stay at home i mean some

1643
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:48,319
people actually have a syndrome where

1644
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:49,680
that's actually what they feel right

1645
00:55:53,510 --> 00:55:51,920
they feel is over arching dread about

1646
00:55:54,789 --> 00:55:53,520
ever going out

1647
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:54,799
and i think

1648
00:55:58,789 --> 00:55:57,599
to be honest with you the the extended

1649
00:56:00,630 --> 00:55:58,799
world that we're talking about here

1650
00:56:05,190 --> 00:56:00,640
extended reality

1651
00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:06,150
you

1652
00:56:16,789 --> 00:56:13,760
and shorts and and go hopefully have a

1653
00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:16,799
good time right you you bring a guide

1654
00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:19,119
you have a knife if you need it you know

1655
00:56:22,789 --> 00:56:21,440
you have food you become aware of the

1656
00:56:24,950 --> 00:56:22,799
snakes and the spiders that are in the

1657
00:56:25,990 --> 00:56:24,960
area what to look out for right so again

1658
00:56:28,230 --> 00:56:26,000
it's just

1659
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:28,240
basic preparation

1660
00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:30,559
i would also say that

1661
00:56:33,430 --> 00:56:31,760
some people

1662
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:33,440
uh and i've talked about this in my

1663
00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:34,960
podcast a fair amount actually both

1664
00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:36,640
podcasts

1665
00:56:45,829 --> 00:56:43,190
anything anomalous

1666
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:45,839
is dangerous or could potentially be

1667
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:48,000
something demonic you know uh chris

1668
00:56:52,309 --> 00:56:50,319
bledsoe for instance that i mentioned

1669
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:52,319
the greatest amount of persecution he's

1670
00:56:55,910 --> 00:56:53,680
faced is from his own religious

1671
00:56:57,510 --> 00:56:55,920
community that even when experiences

1672
00:56:59,510 --> 00:56:57,520
like healing happen

1673
00:57:00,950 --> 00:56:59,520
no matter what the positive fruit of the

1674
00:57:02,309 --> 00:57:00,960
experience is

1675
00:57:04,630 --> 00:57:02,319
there are religious believers who are

1676
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:04,640
convinced these are demons and nothing

1677
00:57:08,950 --> 00:57:06,880
you could do or demonstrate would change

1678
00:57:10,789 --> 00:57:08,960
that perspective

1679
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:10,799
so i think some of that happens

1680
00:57:13,510 --> 00:57:12,480
some sometimes people from a religious

1681
00:57:14,630 --> 00:57:13,520
background

1682
00:57:15,990 --> 00:57:14,640
uh

1683
00:57:19,109 --> 00:57:16,000
have a tendency

1684
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:19,119
to skew towards this could be demonic

1685
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:20,319
right because that's already part of

1686
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:22,240
their world view right

1687
00:57:25,589 --> 00:57:24,319
so um

1688
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:25,599
and there are certain passages in

1689
00:57:29,910 --> 00:57:28,079
scripture that talk about you know

1690
00:57:31,589 --> 00:57:29,920
satan parading as an angel of light for

1691
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:31,599
instance and so people will pick and

1692
00:57:35,349 --> 00:57:33,520
choose i mean i have a biblical studies

1693
00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:35,359
degree so this is part of my background

1694
00:57:40,150 --> 00:57:37,599
so people will pick and choose

1695
00:57:41,589 --> 00:57:40,160
certain passages to make you to say to

1696
00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:41,599
you you should be wary of this kind of

1697
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:44,160
stuff while ignoring other passages and

1698
00:57:47,130 --> 00:57:45,359
that's the first thing that's kind of a

1699
00:57:49,829 --> 00:57:47,140
pet peeve of mine

1700
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:49,839
[Music]

1701
00:57:54,309 --> 00:57:52,480
but most importantly i would say

1702
00:57:56,230 --> 00:57:54,319
once we get past people having certain

1703
00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:56,240
pre-existing paradigms that shape the

1704
00:58:01,030 --> 00:57:57,839
way they see this

1705
00:58:02,630 --> 00:58:01,040
otherworldly aspect of reality

1706
00:58:03,829 --> 00:58:02,640
when you just look at the hard data and

1707
00:58:06,710 --> 00:58:03,839
i brought this up in the in the

1708
00:58:08,789 --> 00:58:06,720
conversation with james um

1709
00:58:10,870 --> 00:58:08,799
i've looked at the data and people who

1710
00:58:13,190 --> 00:58:10,880
follow certain protocols right the the

1711
00:58:14,470 --> 00:58:13,200
ce5 or the highest protocols which means

1712
00:58:17,829 --> 00:58:14,480
there's a certain kind of preparation

1713
00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:17,839
you do before you try and make contact

1714
00:58:24,309 --> 00:58:20,640
i've looked at the data and it's

1715
00:58:25,990 --> 00:58:24,319
around 98 99 of those kind of

1716
00:58:28,309 --> 00:58:26,000
endeavors end up with positive

1717
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:28,319
experiences in other words there really

1718
00:58:33,430 --> 00:58:31,280
does seem to be a demonstrable uh data

1719
00:58:35,829 --> 00:58:33,440
driven element to this that says when

1720
00:58:38,069 --> 00:58:35,839
you follow these particular protocols

1721
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:38,079
then you're very likely to have positive

1722
00:58:42,630 --> 00:58:40,480
experiences and so

1723
00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:42,640
i find it a little bit disingenuous

1724
00:58:46,390 --> 00:58:45,280
personally for people to paint the whole

1725
00:58:47,349 --> 00:58:46,400
thing as if it's well you don't know

1726
00:58:49,430 --> 00:58:47,359
what's going to happen it's like

1727
00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:49,440
spinning the wheel and you know on the

1728
00:58:52,390 --> 00:58:51,040
wheel of fortune and it could be you

1729
00:58:54,549 --> 00:58:52,400
know bankrupt or you could hit the

1730
00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:54,559
jackpot i don't think it's that simple i

1731
00:58:58,710 --> 00:58:56,160
think you can

1732
00:59:01,589 --> 00:58:58,720
exercise more control than that i think

1733
00:59:04,150 --> 00:59:01,599
that in any of these subtle states

1734
00:59:05,750 --> 00:59:04,160
if you come in with fear or negativity

1735
00:59:07,030 --> 00:59:05,760
that gets mirrored back to you i think

1736
00:59:09,109 --> 00:59:07,040
that's partly what we see happening at

1737
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:09,119
skinwalker ranch so you need to be you

1738
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:11,599
need to cultivate self-awareness

1739
00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:13,680
to go in knowing that you yourself has a

1740
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:17,280
have a positive uh attitude

1741
00:59:19,990 --> 00:59:18,960
and that that doesn't get reflected back

1742
00:59:20,820 --> 00:59:20,000
to you

1743
00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:20,830
and um

1744
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:22,400
[Music]

1745
00:59:25,589 --> 00:59:24,240
again what i see when i look at the the

1746
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:25,599
data from people and i've talked to

1747
00:59:28,069 --> 00:59:27,040
people who've done this for decades you

1748
00:59:29,829 --> 00:59:28,079
know

1749
00:59:32,549 --> 00:59:29,839
dr joseph burks is a friend of mine and

1750
00:59:35,670 --> 00:59:32,559
he's he's been involved with c5 going

1751
00:59:37,990 --> 00:59:35,680
back into the 80s and 90s way way back

1752
00:59:40,390 --> 00:59:38,000
and he's never had a negative experience

1753
00:59:41,829 --> 00:59:40,400
you know and um so i'm not just but i'm

1754
00:59:43,190 --> 00:59:41,839
not just relying on one or two people

1755
00:59:44,549 --> 00:59:43,200
who've never had a negative experience

1756
00:59:46,390 --> 00:59:44,559
i'm saying when i look at the body of

1757
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:46,400
data it says that when you follow these

1758
00:59:49,430 --> 00:59:48,000
certain protocols which means

1759
00:59:51,030 --> 00:59:49,440
specifically

1760
00:59:53,190 --> 00:59:51,040
you're preparing yourself you're doing

1761
00:59:55,109 --> 00:59:53,200
meditation you're

1762
00:59:57,670 --> 00:59:55,119
coming in with a positive intentionality

1763
01:00:01,109 --> 00:59:57,680
to connect with others who also have a

1764
01:00:03,349 --> 01:00:01,119
caring positive intentionality

1765
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:03,359
then when you join with others with that

1766
01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:04,400
intention

1767
01:00:08,470 --> 01:00:06,880
you tend to have positive experiences

1768
01:00:10,150 --> 01:00:08,480
and and that's why for me when i went to

1769
01:00:12,309 --> 01:00:10,160
monroe gathering together with this

1770
01:00:14,069 --> 01:00:12,319
group of people

1771
01:00:15,910 --> 01:00:14,079
some of us with a very scientific

1772
01:00:18,390 --> 01:00:15,920
background but none of us being cynics

1773
01:00:20,150 --> 01:00:18,400
you know none of us being uh you know

1774
01:00:22,549 --> 01:00:20,160
hyper skeptical all of us having some

1775
01:00:24,710 --> 01:00:22,559
degree of experience with this already

1776
01:00:27,270 --> 01:00:24,720
not for a second was i concerned

1777
01:00:28,950 --> 01:00:27,280
and um in my own experience including

1778
01:00:31,990 --> 01:00:28,960
what happened at monroe i've had nothing

1779
01:00:33,829 --> 01:00:32,000
but positive experiences as a result

1780
01:00:36,069 --> 01:00:33,839
but that is lastly i always want to give

1781
01:00:37,510 --> 01:00:36,079
the the disclaimer that that is not to

1782
01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:37,520
dismiss people who have had negative

1783
01:00:41,030 --> 01:00:39,440
experiences this is where it gets

1784
01:00:42,549 --> 01:00:41,040
complicated because i think there are

1785
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:42,559
negative entities you know it's not like

1786
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,400
i'm saying it's all love and light and

1787
01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:46,720
you can't no matter open your front door

1788
01:00:50,069 --> 01:00:48,160
you're going to run into these positive

1789
01:00:51,670 --> 01:00:50,079
benevolent beings

1790
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:51,680
again just like what i talked about when

1791
01:00:55,270 --> 01:00:53,040
you go to certain parts of the city at

1792
01:00:57,270 --> 01:00:55,280
certain times of the day you do need to

1793
01:00:59,990 --> 01:00:57,280
exercise discernment still but i think

1794
01:01:02,230 --> 01:01:00,000
it's a it's a wise discernment that you

1795
01:01:04,230 --> 01:01:02,240
can um learn

1796
01:01:06,470 --> 01:01:04,240
and um and that

1797
01:01:08,630 --> 01:01:06,480
the way you interact with the world

1798
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:08,640
including that world determines often

1799
01:01:19,109 --> 01:01:16,950
that makes a lot of sense to me i really

1800
01:01:20,470 --> 01:01:19,119
appreciate your perspective

1801
01:01:23,270 --> 01:01:20,480
and i think it in some ways brings us

1802
01:01:24,870 --> 01:01:23,280
full circle because i was thinking about

1803
01:01:26,870 --> 01:01:24,880
you know what you said about about chris

1804
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:26,880
bledsoe and you know the negative

1805
01:01:30,549 --> 01:01:29,040
reaction that he's gotten from his

1806
01:01:33,430 --> 01:01:30,559
religious community and you know we've

1807
01:01:35,349 --> 01:01:33,440
talked about how there is this sort of

1808
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:35,359
something that's undeniably it's a

1809
01:01:40,470 --> 01:01:37,920
little bit like religiosity you know

1810
01:01:42,870 --> 01:01:40,480
this sort of transformation that people

1811
01:01:44,230 --> 01:01:42,880
can undergo but at the same time it's

1812
01:01:47,190 --> 01:01:44,240
very much not

1813
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:47,200
a religion and in fact in some ways it's

1814
01:01:50,230 --> 01:01:48,240
very

1815
01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:50,240
counter to a lot of religious thought

1816
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:52,880
because there's this idea that you don't

1817
01:02:02,390 --> 01:01:54,000
need

1818
01:02:05,190 --> 01:02:02,400
this sort of

1819
01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:05,200
deeper mystical reality you just need to

1820
01:02:09,670 --> 01:02:07,280
like clear your mind right and and on

1821
01:02:11,270 --> 01:02:09,680
top of that it doesn't you know right

1822
01:02:13,349 --> 01:02:11,280
it doesn't fit with any particular

1823
01:02:15,349 --> 01:02:13,359
religious mythos right so

1824
01:02:16,630 --> 01:02:15,359
uh so for instance one of the reasons

1825
01:02:18,069 --> 01:02:16,640
why i

1826
01:02:19,349 --> 01:02:18,079
i'm a little bit frustrated by people

1827
01:02:21,270 --> 01:02:19,359
who quickly want to put this into a

1828
01:02:22,470 --> 01:02:21,280
certain religious category

1829
01:02:24,549 --> 01:02:22,480
is that

1830
01:02:26,710 --> 01:02:24,559
they might say oh you had a positive

1831
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:26,720
experience with a seemingly otherworldly

1832
01:02:30,150 --> 01:02:27,920
being

1833
01:02:32,470 --> 01:02:30,160
welcome to christian mythology that's

1834
01:02:34,470 --> 01:02:32,480
that's an angel and they're trying to

1835
01:02:36,470 --> 01:02:34,480
help save your soul or if you have a

1836
01:02:38,630 --> 01:02:36,480
negative experience they say oh

1837
01:02:40,150 --> 01:02:38,640
welcome to demonology you just had an

1838
01:02:43,270 --> 01:02:40,160
experience with a fallen angel they're

1839
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:43,280
trying to you know rob your eternal soul

1840
01:02:45,510 --> 01:02:44,160
so

1841
01:02:47,510 --> 01:02:45,520
they want

1842
01:02:49,510 --> 01:02:47,520
and that isn't to say again that those

1843
01:02:51,910 --> 01:02:49,520
both positive and negative entities

1844
01:02:55,109 --> 01:02:51,920
exist they do i really believe they do i

1845
01:02:56,710 --> 01:02:55,119
think there's things we can do to

1846
01:02:58,870 --> 01:02:56,720
have some impact on which ones we

1847
01:03:00,630 --> 01:02:58,880
interact with like i've been getting at

1848
01:03:03,510 --> 01:03:00,640
and i think there is a certain

1849
01:03:05,589 --> 01:03:03,520
element of um spiritual hygiene

1850
01:03:07,510 --> 01:03:05,599
basically preparing yourself that you

1851
01:03:08,950 --> 01:03:07,520
can uh incorporate and that you should

1852
01:03:10,710 --> 01:03:08,960
incorporate whenever you're doing these

1853
01:03:11,990 --> 01:03:10,720
kind of things but again it's basic

1854
01:03:13,270 --> 01:03:12,000
common sense just like when you go in

1855
01:03:16,870 --> 01:03:13,280
the amazon there's certain things you'll

1856
01:03:18,309 --> 01:03:16,880
prepare for um

1857
01:03:21,589 --> 01:03:18,319
but yeah

1858
01:03:23,270 --> 01:03:21,599
in people like chris's experience

1859
01:03:24,950 --> 01:03:23,280
not only um

1860
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:24,960
does it have a spiritual element with

1861
01:03:30,789 --> 01:03:28,000
this overarching spiritual like creative

1862
01:03:33,270 --> 01:03:30,799
like ultimate meaning tied to it but it

1863
01:03:36,150 --> 01:03:33,280
doesn't fit with any particular uh

1864
01:03:37,109 --> 01:03:36,160
mythos whether it's islamic or christian

1865
01:03:39,190 --> 01:03:37,119
or

1866
01:03:41,589 --> 01:03:39,200
specifically christian like evangelical

1867
01:03:43,430 --> 01:03:41,599
or catholic it just doesn't there's

1868
01:03:45,270 --> 01:03:43,440
elements that fly in the face of all of

1869
01:03:47,109 --> 01:03:45,280
that and so

1870
01:03:49,109 --> 01:03:47,119
just like we talked about with uh with

1871
01:03:50,470 --> 01:03:49,119
mainstream materialism and it has a

1872
01:03:52,870 --> 01:03:50,480
vested interest the scientific

1873
01:03:55,109 --> 01:03:52,880
establishment has a vested interest in

1874
01:03:56,630 --> 01:03:55,119
not

1875
01:03:57,990 --> 01:03:56,640
letting the public believe this stuff

1876
01:03:59,910 --> 01:03:58,000
actually is real right like the sci

1877
01:04:01,510 --> 01:03:59,920
phenomena or the ufo phenomenon because

1878
01:04:03,510 --> 01:04:01,520
they want to have that controlling

1879
01:04:05,029 --> 01:04:03,520
narrative right it's it's not all you

1880
01:04:06,870 --> 01:04:05,039
know it's not all

1881
01:04:08,710 --> 01:04:06,880
malevolent like that like just sometimes

1882
01:04:10,789 --> 01:04:08,720
again people

1883
01:04:12,390 --> 01:04:10,799
unconsciously guard against anything

1884
01:04:14,390 --> 01:04:12,400
that would begin to question their own

1885
01:04:15,750 --> 01:04:14,400
worldview in the same way the scientific

1886
01:04:17,510 --> 01:04:15,760
establishment does that around some of

1887
01:04:20,069 --> 01:04:17,520
these elements different religious

1888
01:04:21,910 --> 01:04:20,079
communities do the same thing and say

1889
01:04:24,390 --> 01:04:21,920
look religious stuff happened in the

1890
01:04:26,230 --> 01:04:24,400
past right but now we have a book and

1891
01:04:28,630 --> 01:04:26,240
everything's safe and tame and as long

1892
01:04:30,789 --> 01:04:28,640
as you follow these rules and

1893
01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:30,799
and it's about the afterlife then let's

1894
01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:32,880
then you're good to go right and so

1895
01:04:37,029 --> 01:04:34,880
it's partly a way of in the same way the

1896
01:04:38,630 --> 01:04:37,039
scientific establishment does it

1897
01:04:40,549 --> 01:04:38,640
because again this is where dogma comes

1898
01:04:43,430 --> 01:04:40,559
in i find this time and time and time

1899
01:04:44,710 --> 01:04:43,440
again with people groups is that they

1900
01:04:47,349 --> 01:04:44,720
resist

1901
01:04:49,349 --> 01:04:47,359
outlier data not because it's not valid

1902
01:04:54,549 --> 01:04:49,359
but because it questions the their

1903
01:04:57,190 --> 01:04:55,910
yeah

1904
01:04:59,430 --> 01:04:57,200
yes

1905
01:05:01,829 --> 01:04:59,440
absolutely i see that a lot i think we

1906
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:01,839
all do on all sides nobody's nobody's

1907
01:05:08,549 --> 01:05:05,520
immune to it exactly innocent of that

1908
01:05:09,589 --> 01:05:08,559
yeah myself included so you know

1909
01:05:11,510 --> 01:05:09,599
um

1910
01:05:13,750 --> 01:05:11,520
well listen it has been fantastic

1911
01:05:15,510 --> 01:05:13,760
talking to you where do you

1912
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:15,520
to kind of close this out

1913
01:05:18,710 --> 01:05:16,319
um

1914
01:05:20,630 --> 01:05:18,720
where do you feel kind of led in this

1915
01:05:21,990 --> 01:05:20,640
adventure next like what can people

1916
01:05:24,950 --> 01:05:22,000
expect well um

1917
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:24,960
you know i began my podcast a couple

1918
01:05:29,990 --> 01:05:26,880
years ago or two and a half years ago

1919
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:30,000
yeah um and

1920
01:05:34,470 --> 01:05:32,880
began uh just with an investigation

1921
01:05:36,230 --> 01:05:34,480
right like just recognizing that this

1922
01:05:37,990 --> 01:05:36,240
was real somehow but not knowing how it

1923
01:05:40,230 --> 01:05:38,000
was real not knowing which of the

1924
01:05:42,150 --> 01:05:40,240
hypotheses was accurate or if it was a

1925
01:05:44,549 --> 01:05:42,160
combination of them so it was very much

1926
01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:44,559
a journey for me and understanding right

1927
01:05:49,670 --> 01:05:47,440
to some degree an intellectual journey

1928
01:05:50,950 --> 01:05:49,680
as i've gained clarity and through some

1929
01:05:53,430 --> 01:05:50,960
of the stuff we've talked about the

1930
01:05:56,230 --> 01:05:53,440
synchronistic orchestration feeling like

1931
01:05:57,829 --> 01:05:56,240
there's a vocation you know urging me in

1932
01:06:00,150 --> 01:05:57,839
a certain direction has become much more

1933
01:06:01,829 --> 01:06:00,160
than an intellectual exercise for me

1934
01:06:05,589 --> 01:06:01,839
and and now i feel this kind of

1935
01:06:07,990 --> 01:06:05,599
purpose-driven kind of a directionality

1936
01:06:09,589 --> 01:06:08,000
where i i want to do more of what i did

1937
01:06:11,589 --> 01:06:09,599
at monroe i want to connect with people

1938
01:06:13,750 --> 01:06:11,599
more often i want to join with people in

1939
01:06:14,950 --> 01:06:13,760
different endeavors you know so

1940
01:06:17,190 --> 01:06:14,960
one of the things i've been thinking

1941
01:06:18,710 --> 01:06:17,200
about is is offering courses where we

1942
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:18,720
talk about these things and it's not

1943
01:06:22,069 --> 01:06:20,799
just a you know someone listens to audio

1944
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:22,079
and they're in their own world but we

1945
01:06:26,150 --> 01:06:24,640
actually interact both in person and

1946
01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:26,160
then even through like a video kind of

1947
01:06:30,390 --> 01:06:29,039
conferencing kind of scenario

1948
01:06:32,630 --> 01:06:30,400
i really want to

1949
01:06:34,390 --> 01:06:32,640
join with people in that in kind of

1950
01:06:36,710 --> 01:06:34,400
joint endeavors in consciousness

1951
01:06:39,270 --> 01:06:36,720
basically um

1952
01:06:41,349 --> 01:06:39,280
and uh yeah that's basically

1953
01:06:43,190 --> 01:06:41,359
what i know for now you know and i'm

1954
01:06:45,430 --> 01:06:43,200
working on a couple different books

1955
01:06:48,150 --> 01:06:45,440
uh i'm excited to do more things like

1956
01:06:50,230 --> 01:06:48,160
monroe in the future um that's the

1957
01:06:52,870 --> 01:06:50,240
general direction i'm going is to make

1958
01:06:54,789 --> 01:06:52,880
this more pragmatic more practical

1959
01:06:57,270 --> 01:06:54,799
more human-centric you know like

1960
01:06:59,109 --> 01:06:57,280
connecting with people uh

1961
01:07:01,510 --> 01:06:59,119
that's part of the reason why i sort of

1962
01:07:03,750 --> 01:07:01,520
you know came out of the shadows and

1963
01:07:05,349 --> 01:07:03,760
wasn't just an alien avatar

1964
01:07:06,710 --> 01:07:05,359
it was so that people could interact

1965
01:07:09,190 --> 01:07:06,720
with who i am

1966
01:07:10,630 --> 01:07:09,200
as a human being and and i want to just

1967
01:07:12,710 --> 01:07:10,640
continue to

1968
01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:12,720
broaden that scope and join with others

1969
01:07:19,349 --> 01:07:14,400
and and see where this journey in

1970
01:07:23,910 --> 01:07:21,589
well that's wonderful i'm very excited

1971
01:07:25,670 --> 01:07:23,920
to see what you do next and yeah i hope

1972
01:07:28,150 --> 01:07:25,680
we can keep in touch i'm really inspired

1973
01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:28,160
by your work and i'm just also feeling

1974
01:07:30,710 --> 01:07:29,280
that

1975
01:07:31,670 --> 01:07:30,720
i see it a lot in the community right

1976
01:07:33,430 --> 01:07:31,680
now there seems to be almost like a

1977
01:07:34,710 --> 01:07:33,440
collective push for more collaboration i

1978
01:07:36,630 --> 01:07:34,720
think we're all realizing that we need

1979
01:07:38,069 --> 01:07:36,640
to work together more and i think that's

1980
01:07:40,230 --> 01:07:38,079
actually a really special i agree and

1981
01:07:41,029 --> 01:07:40,240
it's really cool hearing that you have

1982
01:07:42,549 --> 01:07:41,039
had

1983
01:07:43,910 --> 01:07:42,559
changes in your life over the last few

1984
01:07:45,510 --> 01:07:43,920
years and i didn't know that you'd come

1985
01:07:47,670 --> 01:07:45,520
from this atheistic you know

1986
01:07:49,430 --> 01:07:47,680
scientifically minded background with a

1987
01:07:52,150 --> 01:07:49,440
very sort of narrow focus on the world

1988
01:07:53,589 --> 01:07:52,160
and and have also had this synchronistic

1989
01:07:55,270 --> 01:07:53,599
orchestration in your life so that's

1990
01:07:56,950 --> 01:07:55,280
really great to hear

1991
01:07:58,390 --> 01:07:56,960
i can't tell you how often i hear that

1992
01:08:01,190 --> 01:07:58,400
though that's what's amazing about it is

1993
01:08:02,870 --> 01:08:01,200
that it's not rare you know when people

1994
01:08:04,470 --> 01:08:02,880
begin to open their minds to this then

1995
01:08:06,789 --> 01:08:04,480
it begins to happen that they feel this

1996
01:08:09,190 --> 01:08:06,799
overarching purpose and that it's not

1997
01:08:11,270 --> 01:08:09,200
any individual life it's about somehow

1998
01:08:13,589 --> 01:08:11,280
all of us like you say are connected and

1999
01:08:15,430 --> 01:08:13,599
uh the desire for more collaboration and

2000
01:08:19,790 --> 01:08:15,440
connection for sure and i've enjoyed the

2001
01:08:55,110 --> 01:08:39,679
[Music]